HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby norbs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:22 am

familyguy wrote:Hang on, Armstrong's legal team has come up with the solution!

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/arm ... 27llp.html

Take a lie detector test! Brilliant!

Jim



Psychopaths can beat them can't they?
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by BNA » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:31 am

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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby biker jk » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:31 am

familyguy wrote:Hang on, Armstrong's legal team has come up with the solution!

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/arm ... 27llp.html

Take a lie detector test! Brilliant!

Jim


Well it was actually the interviewer that suggested the lie detector test and Armstrong's lawyer initially agreed, then ummed and erred, and said "maybe" then said he had to leave...

In any case, lie detector tests are unreliable, indeed "pseudo science".
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby DaveOZ » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:35 am

Who really cares. It's quite clear he took the drugs and pushed them onto other younger riders. His continued denial is just eroding any credibility he had left. I don't know how he can continue to live the lie in the face of all this.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby clackers » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:09 am

familyguy wrote:Hang on, Armstrong's legal team has come up with the solution!

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/arm ... 27llp.html

Take a lie detector test! Brilliant!

Jim


Tyler Hamilton took one of these about his blood transfusions, Jim, lied during it - but passed. :-(
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Chris249 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:16 am

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Last edited by Chris249 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby clackers » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:50 am

Chris249 wrote:You have no logical reason nor any evidence to assume that all successful riders cheated.


20 out of 21 podium finishers in Armstrong's time known to have cheated is a fair proportion, Chris. Their key domestiques would have been required to cheat to keep up with them, too (Lance had these guys in the same camper van as himself , for better discretion and control).

But it was still possible for someone to win a Classic or even a week long tour only on "pane e acqua" ("bread and water", or clean, as the pros joked amongst themselves.)
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:05 am

Chris249 wrote:
greyhoundtom wrote:There are a lot of two faced mongrels out there that have all of a sudden have become “born again Christians” just to save their own jobs, such as Garmins Vaughter sacking Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie for having used PED’s when he recently confessed to having used PED’s himself.

You can shoot down LA as much as you like, but as far as I’m concerned there was not one successful rider out there during LA’s time that did not use some form of PED.


Sorry, but I think that is a low thing to say, and given what you have said in your post you have no right to complain about the strength of my language.

You are accusing people of being cheats because some other people in their sport are cheats. You have no logical reason nor any evidence to assume that all successful riders cheated, and some people who have given evidence have specifically singled out successful riders who did not cheat. Why would Millar etc specifically say that Moncouts etc were clean if that was not so?

You are a greyhound owner aren't you? Would you be happy if people said that because cheating in greyhound racing is common, you must be a cheat yourself? That's exactly what you are saying about cyclists.

Yes I admit that was a harsh thing to say, and it tars the few genuine champions with the same brush, and it is something I regret posting.

Unfortunately going by all the evidence to date that shows just how difficult it was for the authorities to detect the use of PED’s during LA’s time, it does not look good for anyone winning races during that time.

And yes during my time in greyhound racing I have had people look at me sideways and assume that I must have cheated to win some of the races that I did. But that was between my conscious and me, and I can assure you I feel good about my time in greyhound racing, and sleep soundly satisfied I did the very best I could.

At the same time I should mention that I retired from greyhound racing earlier in my career than I should have, and vowed not to come back into that industry untill such time the Authorities in Australia had come up with a positive swab to EPO.

Unfortunately that has not happened as yet, but then it gave me the time to come to love bike riding which would not have happened if I was still walking dogs. :D
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby sogood » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:17 am

Well, the evidence is overwhelming on LA at this point and I would agree that the line of innocent until proven otherwise has been breached. Given the widespread PED culture of that time, the question now will be, who didn't use PED during that period? From my perspective, that whole period of cycling history was tainted, it's almost not worth considering. It was more of a contest of dopers vs dopers, not too different to some other mass sports where dope control is lax.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby clackers » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:42 am

sogood wrote:Well, the evidence is overwhelming on LA at this point and I would agree that the line of innocent until proven otherwise has been breached. Given the widespread PED culture of that time, the question now will be, who didn't use PED during that period? From my perspective, that whole period of cycling history was tainted, it's almost not worth considering. It was more of a contest of dopers vs dopers, not too different to some other mass sports where dope control is lax.


Yep, and it does raise the question of what to do with everyone who were in those peletons and are still connected with the sport today - Matt White as a recent example, Bjarne Riis as an outrageous one!

So, should the sport be hindered by sending 15-20 years worth of coaches and administrators packing? Some sort of amnesty to clear consciences but retain jobs?

Not easy, either way.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby sogood » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:57 am

clackers wrote:Yep, and it does raise the question of what to do with everyone in those peletons who are still connected with the sport today - Matt White as a recent example, Bjarne Riis as an outrageous one!

So, should the sport be hindered by sending 15-20 years worth of coaches and administrators packing? Some sort of amnesty to clear consciences but retain jobs?

The society and religion have long had a method to resolve these mass sins - Amnesty. Redemption is at hand only if one admits the sin. Without such, there wouldn't be any seniors within the sport. One just have to trust these redeemers would stay true in their future actions.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:12 am

sogood wrote:The society and religion have long had a method to resolve these mass sins - Amnesty. Redemption is at hand only if one admits the sin. Without such, there wouldn't be any seniors within the sport. One just have to trust these redeemers would stay true in their future actions.

Then what about the ICU and their role in this :?:
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby sogood » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:30 am

greyhoundtom wrote:Then what about the ICU and their role in this :?:

The UCI will need to talk to the Vatican for some historic pointers. :roll:
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:36 am

sogood wrote:
greyhoundtom wrote:Then what about the ICU and their role in this :?:

The UCI will need to talk to the Vatican for some historic pointers. :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You are now responsible for me having sprayed coffee all over my laptop.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby sogood » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:23 pm

Glad to be of assistance in shortening your laptop replacement cycle. :)
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Chris249 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:17 pm

[quote="greyhoundtom]Yes I admit that was a harsh thing to say, and it tars the few genuine champions with the same brush, and it is something I regret posting.

Unfortunately going by all the evidence to date that shows just how difficult it was for the authorities to detect the use of PED’s during LA’s time, it does not look good for anyone winning races during that time.

And yes during my time in greyhound racing I have had people look at me sideways and assume that I must have cheated to win some of the races that I did. But that was between my conscious and me, and I can assure you I feel good about my time in greyhound racing, and sleep soundly satisfied I did the very best I could.

At the same time I should mention that I retired from greyhound racing earlier in my career than I should have, and vowed not to come back into that industry untill such time the Authorities in Australia had come up with a positive swab to EPO.

Unfortunately that has not happened as yet, but then it gave me the time to come to love bike riding which would not have happened if I was still walking dogs. :D[/quote]
Cheers for saying that; I will try to remove my link to your remark.

If info like this http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/armstrong1150px.jpg is accurate then there were quite a few winners who were not on dope at the time, including world champ Oscar Periero, Fernando Escartin (3rd in the Tour, but also claimed to have doped) and Daniele Nardello (GT stage winner). I suppose how you define "successful" but I would put Sastre (repeated top 10s in the TdF and apparently clean) in that box too.

I think the thing that gets me about saying they all dope is that there were people who suffered because they didn't dope (Moncouts, Nardello, Periero) who shouldn't also suffer from being called dopers...getting hit twice for doing nothing wrong seems harash.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:20 pm

ICU?

Oh, sorry, you guys mean UCI. :o

Though maybe there is a message there - Intensive Care Unit is of relevance.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby find_bruce » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:51 pm

Chris249 wrote:If info like this http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/armstrong1150px.jpg is accurate then there were quite a few winners who were not on dope at the time, including world champ Oscar Periero, Fernando Escartin (3rd in the Tour, but also claimed to have doped) and Daniele Nardello (GT stage winner). I suppose how you define "successful" but I would put Sastre (repeated top 10s in the TdF and apparently clean) in that box too.

Sadly the chart is out of date. Not only can you shade out Armstrong, but going on the ever doped rationale, Vende Velde & F Schleck. Have to doubt the "best lieutenant" Armstrong ever had from 2004 - 2006 José Azevedo.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby winstonw » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:29 pm

So, there's no other conclusion to reach other than everyone from LA's time took drugs.
A negative test proved nothing.

If it took LA's detractors over 10 years to speak up, it has to be presumed everyone else has detractors who will eventually do the same, even on their death beds.
It's such a farcical masquerade all this.
Doping was THE culture of the era.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby DaveOZ » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:26 pm

So how long before Lance goes to jail?

Worth watching the 4 Corners prog if you missed it.

Phil Liggett looks like he has been crying for a week.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby norbs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:37 pm

DaveOZ wrote:So how long before Lance goes to jail?

Worth watching the 4 Corners prog if you missed it.

Phil Liggett looks like he has been crying for a week.



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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby DaveOZ » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:49 pm

Tyler obviously didn't want to mess his hair up by wearing a helmet. Oops, wrong thread? :D
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby norbs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:03 pm

DaveOZ wrote:Tyler obviously didn't want to mess his hair up by wearing a helmet. Oops, wrong thread? :D



PEDs dont mess your hair up. See Tyler and Frankie. :)
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby eldavo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:13 am

winstonw wrote:Doping was THE culture of the era.

So was genocide for nazi's era, perhaps some manipulating many was part of the reason.
I think that's the Oprah Winfrey life coach mentality of making it someone else's responsibility for consequences of your actions.
Great ideas if a dollar sign and account balance is your moral compass.

Personally I liked the rider with dead body in basement stinking things up for UCI analogy, he sounded like he was speaking from experience with the detail =D

None of the people involved in big money seem to be worth giving a rats arse about (sponsored funded pro level teams, UCI itself, sponsors with money to burn and lawyers to fund to debate it all).
If you can relate to those sums of money and that lifestyle, congratulations for having made it and feel free to debate why it matters.
If you care about the sport and want to see competitive cycling this should be a good promo for abandoning the corruption and supporting your local riders and community, and getting involved beyond watching on TV and buying team kit and race rep bikes. Just let me keep my S-Works Roubaix =D

Interesting entertainment, but sadly seems like just another reminder of how under-achieving we are as a world of human civilisations in star date 2012.
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby eldavo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:30 am

PS: I read about Greg LeMond in terms of research on an indoor cycle trainer by his bike brand earlier in the year before TdF 2012, and found his wiki page an interesting tale.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond
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Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby master6 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:33 am

The good news for Australia is that only one of our number has offended here.
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