Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
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Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby Wal42 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:40 pm
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more- ... 6499246901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/cy ... 6499246901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/201 ... -went-bad/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby jules21 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:48 pm
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby AUbicycles » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:10 am
Lets also consider atheletes who resisted and as a result could no longer compete and thus closed a lot of doors (career / financial) that would have otherwise been open.
I certainly recognise the good in people and their remorse, but also acknowledge that by knowingly doping that an individual is part of the system.
It would be interesting if offenders were required to actively help improve anti-doping tests / knowledge / programs
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby Wal42 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:25 am
Take away all the incentive & it's not worth the risk anymore.
There is another post covering this which I found this morning so to not duplicate too much, here's the link-
http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... 12&t=57613" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby Crowz » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:36 am
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby AUbicycles » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:25 am
I guess it is human nature though a lot of other people are affected.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby foo on patrol » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:37 pm
To me it is the same as cosmetic surgery, except your not doing someone out being in the record books of results. Insecure people opt for the easy way out.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:03 pm
Back in the 80s, young, impressionable, everyone else was on some sort of PED, they wanted to make a career out of racing. Not condoning but I can see why someone would do it.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby foo on patrol » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:30 pm
Everyone and I mean everyone, knows that drug use is not acceptable in sport and I was affected by these lowlifes.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:34 pm
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby foo on patrol » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:05 pm
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:12 pm
At Club level, racing isn't paying the bills.
At the pro level a rider needs to continue to perform to stay in the team. That is were I can see the influence of PEDs comes into play, just to stay in the team and continue riding. Especially considering back in the 80-90s it is now considered that most in the pro peleton were doping, if you didn't dope to keep up then it is the end of the game.
No more team, no more money and back to the real world.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby Crowz » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:26 pm
I could say the same about drug dealing. It's illegal but my god I'm sure it would more than pay the bills - so it would be ok for me, right?skull wrote:I see a difference
At Club level, racing isn't paying the bills.
At the pro level a rider needs to continue to perform to stay in the team. That is were I can see the influence of PEDs comes into play, just to stay in the team and continue riding. Especially considering back in the 80-90s it is now considered that most in the pro peleton were doping, if you didn't dope to keep up then it is the end of the game.
No more team, no more money and back to the real world.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:30 pm
I am just pointing out I can see how riders got influenced.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby AUbicycles » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:32 pm
True it is a real temptation, but lets not forget that this success costs non-doped riders a fair chance of competition and has consequences that we are seeing today. Lets also consider doped riders who have had successful careers in cycling and beyond, but is because of the PEDs - and those who have missed out on the chance, I am certain that there were a number of talented cyclists out there who didn't get their chance.skull wrote:No more team, no more money and back to the real world.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby foo on patrol » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:22 pm
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby UpDownUp » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:26 pm
I dont condone doping and agree with comments that there should be suitable penalties / disincentives. What I'm wondering is if we totally "burn" any ex-pros turned to coaching or administration who admit to doping during their pro career then will we be left with a big loss of talent and end up effectively "shooting ourselves in the foot".jules21 wrote:hodgey has done a lot for cycling in australia. he should hold his head up high.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:45 pm
What, like Carmichael? Christ, he introduced LA to doping when he was a teenager while a coach with USAC.UpDownUp wrote:I dont condone doping and agree with comments that there should be suitable penalties / disincentives. What I'm wondering is if we totally "burn" any ex-pros turned to coaching or administration who admit to doping during their pro career then will we be left with a big loss of talent and end up effectively "shooting ourselves in the foot".jules21 wrote:hodgey has done a lot for cycling in australia. he should hold his head up high.
Or Ferrari, who is still selling his coaching services?
Look, Hodge isn't a bad guy. He did a dumb thing, so obviously it's not all black and white.
But there are people who coach and do the right thing, and who were ostracised because they wouldn't play the game, and as a result didn't get to build their reputations by having the elite riders to work with.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby AUbicycles » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:05 am
Very true.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:But there are people who coach and do the right thing, and who were ostracised because they wouldn't play the game, and as a result didn't get to build their reputations by having the elite riders to work with.
Here is an idea to make doping less attractive, busted riders are oblidged to work for a year performing drug tests at races. Don't think many riders would fancy that job, and it is a type of punishment that would help the sport clean up, from c-grade and up!
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby sogood » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:43 pm
That's really the crunch isn't it? Pro cycling is considered to be a profession yet it does not offer any security to those who devoted their time to the sport yet can suffer the ups and downs of normal physiological changes. Not surprised at all that a large portion of the pro riders went into PED.skull wrote:At the pro level a rider needs to continue to perform to stay in the team. That is were I can see the influence of PEDs comes into play, just to stay in the team and continue riding. Especially considering back in the 80-90s it is now considered that most in the pro peleton were doping, if you didn't dope to keep up then it is the end of the game.
Resolution of this doping issue takes far more than just punishing the involved riders/managers. There'll need to be structural reforms in the mix.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby philip » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:28 pm
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby greyhoundtom » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:23 pm
Step one for me would be; If a rider on a team is found to have used PED's, the whole team, not just the individual rider is punished by being removed from competition for 12 months, also the riders on that team not to be able to sign with another team until the penalty time was up.sogood wrote: That's really the crunch isn't it? Pro cycling is considered to be a profession yet it does not offer any security to those who devoted their time to the sport yet can suffer the ups and downs of normal physiological changes. Not surprised at all that a large portion of the pro riders went into PED.
Resolution of this doping issue takes far more than just punishing the involved riders/managers. There'll need to be structural reforms in the mix.
On the other side of the coin, riders would continue to receive financial support from the team if they suffered a form slump for the whole of their remaining contract, even if they were unable to compete.
That would certainly ensure that PED's would be pretty well eradicated.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby scotto » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:26 am
"Shouldnt you have asked him straight out" did you use PED's"philip wrote:Watching Dr Ashenden on cycling central now, asking Klaus the tough questions. Klaus seems to have his head at least partially still in the sand. Dr Ashenden seriously makes the best points and most sense out of anyone else I've heard in all this. Dr Ashenden for PM!
"No, we believe everyone is innocent until charged with an offense" and will discuss with University Ethics dept if we should ask that question....
Klaus Mueller should stand down. When hiring a guy who was just sacked for sending a rider to a known drug doctor, that would be first on my list of questions, well maybe second. First would be why.
Klaus sounds like he'd do well in UCI
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby find_bruce » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:24 pm
philip wrote:Watching Dr Ashenden on cycling central now, asking Klaus the tough questions. Klaus seems to have his head at least partially still in the sand. Dr Ashenden seriously makes the best points and most sense out of anyone else I've heard in all this. Dr Ashenden for PM!
Scotto, my job involves asking people questions in circumstances where they are often motivated to lie. In my experience, approaching in the way the Dr Ashenden suggests & has been adopted by team Sky is likely to force a blanket denial that they ever took PEDs or knew anyone who did.scotto wrote:"Shouldnt you have asked him straight out" did you use PED's"
"No, we believe everyone is innocent until charged with an offense" and will discuss with University Ethics dept if we should ask that question....
Klaus Mueller should stand down. When hiring a guy who was just sacked for sending a rider to a known drug doctor, that would be first on my list of questions, well maybe second. First would be why.
Klaus sounds like he'd do well in UCI
I feel just a little bit dirty that I agree with Jonathan Vaughters in this regard.
IMO you are far more likely to get an honest answer by encouraging the person to open up about what they know about PEDs, why someone would use PEDs etc.
This approach has been used with reasonable success in various Truth and Reconciliation Commissions, most notably in South Africa.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP
Postby philip » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:36 pm
I'm pretty sure Dr Ashenden has a similar view to you? From what I understood from what he's been saying is that the stuff that Sky was doing was useless/not productive.find_bruce wrote:approaching in the way the Dr Ashenden suggests & has been adopted by team Sky
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