Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:33 pm

So I have made a written statement to deliver to police - cover letter is as follows. Letter is also accompanied by detailed statement (based on template in the safety and advocacy section of this forum) with all the details, witness info etc. Sent to my local area command. I actually work a lot with my local state members (as in, I deal with the four state members of parliament from my region personally in my work dealings) so if I don't hear anything I will take that angle as well.

Letter goes like this:


Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: Cyclist Deliberately Targeting By Motor Vehicle
October 17, 2012 (Avoca Drive, Green Point)

I am writing to you because of an incident that occurred to me on Wednesday October 17, 2012.

Whilst I was not injured, no property was damaged and there was no contact made between myself and the offender in this case, the incident was dangerous enough for me to be in fear of my own personal safety. In short, a motor vehicle driver made a deliberate targeted attempt to run me down.

I am fearful that this offender may cause myself, or others, harm in the future if their behaviour is allowed to remain unchecked. This is akin to speeding offences where in most cases the offender when caught was not or has not injured anyone, no property was damaged and no accident has occurred, but they are penalised for what may occur if their speeding is allowed to remain unchecked. In my case the offence was deliberate and immediately life threatening and the driver needs to be made aware of the seriousness of their behaviour towards other road users. The seriousness of the event was evident by other road users who stopped at the scene to offer assistance, including one who offered to provide a witness statement (this is despite the offending driver making no attempt to stop or offer assistance after the incident). Given the seriousness and deliberate nature of the actions of the driver, a call to triple-0 emergency was immediately made offering all the details.

Because this type of situation is becoming all too common, cyclists like myself have resorted to using Digital Video Cameras (DVRs) as a means of giving ourselves the evidence necessary to capture life threatening behaviour of motorists. Unfortunately on this occasion I did not have my camera operating. However, other vehicles stopped at the scene and atleast one other driver has provided their details as a witness to the actions of the offender (provided on the following pages).

With a written statement from myself, and the advice of an independent witness (who was an unknown car driver at the scene), the details in the triple-0 emergency call as well as a full description of the vehicle involved (including registration plate) there is no reason for you not to be able to take some action against the offender including (at least) a formal warning and reminder of potential Traffic Infringement Notices and possibly even criminal charges (especially if I happened to have my video camera operating on the day).

I realise that the police are very busy which is why I am writing to you. This will allow you to consider this matter fully and determine the action you will be taking against the offender before contacting me for formal statements.

I trust that you will take my letter seriously. I am sure you understand that a deliberate and malicious attempt at personal injury could have resulted in serious (or fatal) outcomes and ongoing impacts for my family, life and career.

All I ask is that I be allowed to be able to use the road legally, safely and without fear of personal injury to myself by others.
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by BNA » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:43 pm

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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby MarkG » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:43 pm

blkmcs wrote:
Undertow wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Ok, that is settled, lets move on.

Apologies in advance but I don't think it's quite done yet.

TimW wrote:Oxford being courteous about someones occupation is not hard to do, i am sure if someone denegrated what you do, or did, you would be the first to be "up in arms about it"(I would bet money on it).


If Oxford (or anyone for that matter) was not doing his job to an acceptable I would expect that his boss and customers would complain. Why should this be any different for the police? It is their job to enforce the law, that's why they are called law enforcement. If any member of the public feels that the police aren't doing their best to enforce the law then that person has the right to complain.

Oxford used the term jackboots to refer to the police, this was an unwarranted insult.
I cannot see anywhere in TimW's posts a suggestion that members of the public should not be allowed to complain about members of the Police Service not doing their job.


What is a jackboot? and how is it an insult?
Am I missing something?
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby westab » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:57 pm

Andy - Well done - that letter is tops.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby MarkG » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:04 pm

lol ..

some people are precious on here aren't they..
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby g-boaf » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:12 pm

That's a very reasonable letter. Hope you get a positive outcome.

It's also very good that you are okay.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby skull » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:16 pm

I would view the term jackboot in the same line a grunt. I had no issues being called a grunt when I was in the army.

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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:42 pm

From an alegation of dastardly driver behaviour the thread now seems to now be a place to pummel police. So, about police...

I read a lot of self serving arguments that do not always make much sense without giving an undue benefit of the doubt.

There is a wide variety of what people see as dangerous.

Some people seem to be primed to see faults and rush to report. That just makes it harder for the cops to bother with other legitimate complaints.

There are some alegations supported by video footage that doesn't look anything like the description.

There are many cyclists themselves who very publicly demonstrate a disdain for their own safely while expecting others to value their lives more than they do.

And anyone who complains to the local plod but then is unwilling to go to court is wasting the time of those public servants that are being paid for by my taxes. Talk to cop and ask about that and you will hit a raw nerve.

And finally And there are heap of other things that cops need to do as well. The cops have to somehow juggle all these complaints and demands while filtering out the trivial, the vexatious and the plain wrong to arrive at the few that they can afford the time to deal with properly and sufficiently to get a conviction.

I don't think cops are anything special. But they have my sympathy.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:05 pm

Its interesting that the posts that have come from my initial one sort of some up my thoughts over the last couple of days.

On the one hand, I'm sorta annoyed that more is not done about these sorts of events (you know, cars trying to run people over) - and particularly that it doesn't seem to be a priority for police in many circumstances.

On the other hand, this incident is on minor little thing in the daily life of a police officer. I have no doubt that they deal with some crappy stuff, and that cyclists complaints about drivers (however well founded) are probably a fair way down the list.

And of course there is the heap of other stuff that ColinOldNCranky pointed out (like how do you decide the dodgy claims of bad driving against the legitimate ones).

I dunno what the answer is. In some way I agree with all the posts.

I also entirely convinced that the driver involved in this incident has a very very small !!! spammer !!!!
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby scotto » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:34 pm

Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby jasonc » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:44 pm

scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.


a visit from the boys in blue would be the minimum I'd expect. Then they can decide what to do next based on the response
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:26 pm

jasonc wrote:
AndyTheMan wrote:I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby jasonc » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:09 pm

foo on patrol wrote:
jasonc wrote:
AndyTheMan wrote:I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

Foo


foo - if it was me, I'd call 131444. am unsure what the emergency services would prefer
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:58 pm

Oxford wrote:
scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.

so do you agree that all speeding fines issued where no one was harmed, no property was damaged etc etc should be quashed and never enforced again?



I agree that a visit and a warning would be about the limit of what could be done here.

But, in the bigger picture, I hope that such a warning would be noted on their record for future emergence.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:58 pm

Oxford wrote:
scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.

so do you agree that all speeding fines issued where no one was harmed, no property was damaged etc etc should be quashed and never enforced again?



I agree that a visit and a warning would be about the limit of what could be done here.

But, in the bigger picture, I hope that such a warning would be noted on their record for future reference.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:03 pm

jasonc wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:
jasonc wrote:[quote="AndyTheMan"]I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

Foo


foo - if it was me, I'd call 131444. am unsure what the emergency services would prefer[/quote]

I get your point Jason, but (with all due respect) you weren't there on the spot.

This was not an accident, or a lack,of concentration - this was a deliberate attempt to run me down.

If this was any other threatening situation (man In the street with a knife, guy grabbing a handbag, someone threatening another person etc) would it be acceptable to not call triple 0 because 'no one had yet been hurt'

I do see your point, but at the time the seriousness of the situation was evident to myself and all those other road users left standing on the side of the road.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AndyTheMan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:03 pm

jasonc wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:
jasonc wrote:[quote="AndyTheMan"]I negated to mention that I called triple zero at the scene, gave all details, plus witness details...

They were really helpful right up u until they asked what vehicle I was driving. Once I said cyclist their demeanour changed...

I have a witness, with details, I have the triple zero call. Tomorrow it's a police report.

Anyone had any success without a video?



was anyone still at risk? no Why, because he managed to avoid being hit? :?

should you have called 000? no You're told to call this anyway, when threatend

it's not an emergency. please call 131444 Yeah easy to remember in the moment. :roll:

Foo


foo - if it was me, I'd call 131444. am unsure what the emergency services would prefer[/quote]

I get your point Jason, but (with all due respect) you weren't there on the spot.

This was not an accident, or a lack,of concentration - this was a deliberate attempt to run me down.

If this was any other threatening situation (man In the street with a knife, guy grabbing a handbag, someone threatening another person etc) would it be acceptable to not call triple 0 because 'no one had yet been hurt'

I do see your point, but at the time the seriousness of the situation was evident to myself and all those other road users left standing on the side of the road.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby arkle » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:44 pm

Maybe cyclists have made complaints about that ute driver in the past, and maybe those complaints are recorded somewhere.

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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:57 pm

Oxford, no need to take it to extremes.

So what this type of incident and report does, even if there is little actual result in this case is add another one of these to the list. Many people may not report these but the more reports there are and the more of a concern that it is, the more important it becomes on the agenda of the police and authorities. It then has a long term effect of e.g. General road user education and cycling infrastructure that enables safer co-use of the roads.

It may not be satisfying but reporting and following up, within reason, helps.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:03 am

arkle wrote:Maybe cyclists have made complaints about that ute driver in the past, and maybe those complaints are recorded somewhere.

arkle

+1

In most cases going to the police will not result directly in court action. Put simply the evidence that is supplied by the complainant is insufficient to hold up when presented in court. And likely does not stand out in the cop's eyes enough to drag him away from other investigations and general tasks he also has to fit into h is working life.

However, by doing as arkle suggests, regular offenders DO get to stand out. And, hopefully, that is the person on who cops will then allocate their time.

Insisting that your particular case is THE major law and order issue of the day works against the interests of the cycling community. But just by reporting concerns to the fuzz, insisting no more than that they receive your complaint, you do the whole riding community a favour. It gets added into their base of knowledge and serial offenders get noticed.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby jasonc » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:55 am

AndyTheMan wrote:I do see your point, but at the time the seriousness of the situation was evident to myself and all those other road users left standing on the side of the road.


this is a discussion forum. no problems with either point of view. my post was my opinion. i provided reasons for my opinion. lets just hope there is a positive outcome for all.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:28 am

Just another thing on the 000 all. I rang the local ambualance station to get them for my wife as she was in some distress with serve pain but was told they couldn't respond to it and told me to ring 000 and they would come out. :roll: So even their own system of calling in a case is screwed up as far as which number goes.

Yes my wife did need a trip to the hospital at the time and had treatment on the way in. This is why it can be confusing the to Joe Public as to which numbers to ring because you don't have a separate number for the police in this circumstance and I've been told to ring 000 in these types of situations when threatend :|

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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby scotto » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:29 pm

Oxford wrote:
scotto wrote:Devils advocate time . What do expect to happen ?
You weren't hurt, there was no collision , you say deliberate, he'll say "I didn't see the bicycle". The police can't really do anything I would think except let the ute driver know of the complaint, don't think they can charge him with scaring you. It's one of those situations were you'd get more done if you were hit. But in the eyes of the Law, nothing happened. Imagine the police POV dealing with every car driver who has someone pull out in front of them or scare the daylights out of them.

so do you agree that all speeding fines issued where no one was harmed, no property was damaged etc etc should be quashed and never enforced again?

Um. Speeding fines are a breach of road use regulations and written into legislation...,,
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute (nsw

Postby skull » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:05 pm

Threatening someone with physical harm is against some sort of law as well.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby il padrone » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:23 pm

TimW wrote:
Undertow wrote:How is standing up for your rights and expecting the police to do their job being immature?

They way it is worded mate, if you can't see that then i can't explain it any further for you.Tim
time and time again, certain people on this forum get all antsy when they are disrespected as cyclists. Common courtesy when referring to people doing their job is not to much to ask is it? or is it?. Many of the people here who are of that ilk

You seem to be missing the crucial qualification to Oxford's post:

Oxford wrote:when the local jack boots do nothing I just write to the commissioner and explain the attitude problems I come up against, that usually gets action then. when they begin to realise that you will happily tread over their foreheads to a superior their attitude sharpens up.


Please explain what is so 'militant' about taking further action through police channels when such obvious law-breaking is not acted on by police officers who have a personal agenda that is hampering the fulfillment of their duty to the community. It has been my experience that police are often only too willing to brush off such aggressive driving acts even where there are a number of witnesses. There may be all sorts of reasons why this occurs, but the fact that it does occur is not good enough and people should be aware that the matter can be taken further with good effect.
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Re: Deliberately targeted by white tradie ute

Postby TimW » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:25 pm

il padrone wrote:
TimW wrote:
Undertow wrote:How is standing up for your rights and expecting the police to do their job being immature?

They way it is worded mate, if you can't see that then i can't explain it any further for you.Tim
time and time again, certain people on this forum get all antsy when they are disrespected as cyclists. Common courtesy when referring to people doing their job is not to much to ask is it? or is it?. Many of the people here who are of that ilk

You seem to be missing the crucial qualification to Oxford's post:

Oxford wrote:when the local jack boots do nothing I just write to the commissioner and explain the attitude problems I come up against, that usually gets action then. when they begin to realise that you will happily tread over their foreheads to a superior their attitude sharpens up.


Please explain what is so 'militant' about taking further action through police channels when such obvious law-breaking is not acted on by police officers who have a personal agenda that is hampering the fulfillment of their duty to the community. It has been my experience that police are often only too willing to brush off such aggressive driving acts even where there are a number of witnesses. There may be all sorts of reasons why this occurs, but the fact that it does occur is not good enough and people should be aware that the matter can be taken further with good effect.



As asked by the forum owner, I have moved on, but I was wondering how long it would take before you jumped in IP :roll: :roll:
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