Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby find_bruce » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:42 pm

find_bruce wrote:approaching in the way the Dr Ashenden suggests & has been adopted by team Sky

philip wrote:I'm pretty sure Dr Ashenden has a similar view to you? From what I understood from what he's been saying is that the stuff that Sky was doing was useless/not productive.

THanks for clarifying that Phillip - I didn't see cycling central was merely going on the question above - "Shouldnt you have asked him straight out "did you use PED's""
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by BNA » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:47 pm

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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby philip » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:47 pm

find_bruce wrote:I didn't see cycling central


Have a look here:

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/vi ... discussion
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:18 pm

find_bruce wrote:
find_bruce wrote:approaching in the way the Dr Ashenden suggests & has been adopted by team Sky

philip wrote:I'm pretty sure Dr Ashenden has a similar view to you? From what I understood from what he's been saying is that the stuff that Sky was doing was useless/not productive.

THanks for clarifying that Phillip - I didn't see cycling central was merely going on the question above - "Shouldnt you have asked him straight out "did you use PED's""

The likelihood of someone being evasive to questions has more to do with the nature of the consequences of telling the truth, than the questions per se.

Ashenden: Tell us the truth, and give us all the details about everything that went on, how, when, who, how obtained, administered, who else etc, so you can help us learn more and help stop this in the future. Help us by becoming part of the solution.

Sky & CA: Tells us the truth, and if the answer is you admit to doping, you're fired.

Both ask the same question, but which is more likely to elicit the truth?
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby boss » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:37 pm

I've recently 'gotten into' cycling, but what has become clear to me is that the last 50 years of cycling (at least) have been fraught with doping.

What's a bit disturbing is that the last 20-30 years have involved systemic doping run by teams, or defacto endorsed by team doctors. And it's becoming clearer and clearer, to me anyway, that it has not been a decision on an individual level to dope, but rather a systemic practice that has been endorsed by teams. And the UCI has turned a blind eye.

We can all sit here on our armchairs and say "Oh, I would never dope" or "He's a cheat" or whatever other self-righteous catch phrase we want to quote, but the simple fact is that these guys are young, in their prime, and are being told that if they want to be a professional, this is what they have to do. It's a culture.

Someone made the analogy of a doping cyclist to a drug dealer. And I think it's pretty accurate really.

I mean - when you are trying to take drugs off the street, sure you target a street dealer if you can. But you focus on the source, the supplier, the king-pins... the decision-makers... the culture creators.

The riders are street level. When are we going to go after those that actually pull the strings?

And as for the UCI. Their drug testing practices seem to be a 'tick the box' affair. When are they going to pull their finger out?
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Ross » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:22 pm

jimboss wrote:Someone made the analogy of a doping cyclist to a drug dealer. And I think it's pretty accurate really.

I mean - when you are trying to take drugs off the street, sure you target a street dealer if you can. But you focus on the source, the supplier, the king-pins... the decision-makers... the culture creators.

The riders are street level. When are we going to go after those that actually pull the strings?



They are going after the suppliers such as Michele Ferarri, Pedro Celaya and Del Moral.

Recreational drugs are different IMO. If people are "pressured" into taking them it's only peer pressure. They can say no and walk away and choose to have different friends and aquaintances and a different life.

With the cycling and drugs it's more a life/career thing. If you want to be successful at the highest level in cycling then taking drugs was pretty much neccessary to keep up (literally keep up). pro cycling (and pro sport in general) is about performance and results. You can be the nicest person in the world but unless you are close to or breaking records then your just a wanna be or a has been. You'll only be club or state level competitor. Not condoning drugs in sport (or in recreation), just saying that's how it is/was.

I guess pro cyclists have the choice to to walk away (some did) and not participate in the drug taking but that a lot of times ended their cycling career and they have to find a "proper" job, but that would be very hard for a lot of people where cycling is their life and love and have already spent many years and many sacrifices to get where they are and the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" (pro cycling career in Europe) is within sight. If everyone else is doing it it makes the decision to dope easier.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby boss » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:27 pm

Ross wrote:
jimboss wrote:Someone made the analogy of a doping cyclist to a drug dealer. And I think it's pretty accurate really.

I mean - when you are trying to take drugs off the street, sure you target a street dealer if you can. But you focus on the source, the supplier, the king-pins... the decision-makers... the culture creators.

The riders are street level. When are we going to go after those that actually pull the strings?



They are going after the suppliers such as Michele Ferarri, Pedro Celaya and Del Moral.

Recreational drugs are different IMO. If people are "pressured" into taking them it's only peer pressure. They can say no and walk away and choose to have different friends and aquaintances and a different life.



I wasn't equating PE drugs with recreational drugs - rather taking PE drugs with being a drug dealer.

Someone else further up made the analogy something along the lines of 'sure I can go out and deal drugs to make a living, but it's illegal, so therefore taking PE drugs so you can make a living is equally bad'

I kind of thought that if you're going to look at it that way, the riders should be getting slaps on the wrist (much like street level dealers do) while the guys higher up the food chain should be getting bent over, so to speak.

Ross wrote:
With the cycling and drugs it's more a life/career thing. If you want to be successful at the highest level in cycling then taking drugs was pretty much neccessary to keep up (literally keep up). pro cycling (and pro sport in general) is about performance and results. You can be the nicest person in the world but unless you are close to or breaking records then your just a wanna be or a has been. You'll only be club or state level competitor. Not condoning drugs in sport (or in recreation), just saying that's how it is/was.

I guess pro cyclists have the choice to to walk away (some did) and not participate in the drug taking but that a lot of times ended their cycling career and they have to find a "proper" job, but that would be very hard for a lot of people where cycling is their life and love and have already spent many years and many sacrifices to get where they are and the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" (pro cycling career in Europe) is within sight. If everyone else is doing it it makes the decision to dope easier.


We are on exactly the same page here!
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby sogood » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:25 pm

jimboss wrote:I mean - when you are trying to take drugs off the street, sure you target a street dealer if you can. But you focus on the source, the supplier, the king-pins... the decision-makers... the culture creators.

The riders are street level. When are we going to go after those that actually pull the strings?

It ain't so simple if one cares to trace the chain. UCI obviously has a role on the administrative side, but what about the sponsors and fans who demand results and excitements, the parents who guided their children toward a career in pro cycling, one at the time offered little prospect of reaching their dreams without joining the practice? A serious reset is required from top to bottom of the chain. UCI has to lead, but no way can they change alone.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby boss » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:33 pm

sogood wrote:
jimboss wrote:I mean - when you are trying to take drugs off the street, sure you target a street dealer if you can. But you focus on the source, the supplier, the king-pins... the decision-makers... the culture creators.

The riders are street level. When are we going to go after those that actually pull the strings?

It ain't so simple if one cares to trace the chain. UCI obviously has a role on the administrative side, but what about the sponsors and fans who demand results and excitements, the parents who guided their children toward a career in pro cycling, one at the time offered little prospect of reaching their dreams without joining the practice? A serious reset is required from top to bottom of the chain. UCI has to lead, but no way can they change alone.


Oh it's definitely not a simple problem to be solved. If it was simple, it would have been addressed years ago.

What is clear that the UCI have turned a blind eye - and may even be knowingly complicit in covering up doping allegations (Armstrong).

It would be interesting to see laws for team owners/management like the ones that apply to company directors in Australia. I do not know the specifics but am led to believe that company directors are liable for debts incurred by the organization they direct - imagine if teams were liable for the actions of their riders... team member gets caught doping, entire team out for the year, management fined, owners fined.

All bellybutton pondering. But what I'm concerned about is the seemingly systemic doping and doping culture that seems to exist in elite cycling. Something has to change.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby cp123 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:20 pm

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-new ... 282ka.html



You honestly wonder why he hasn't come out anytime within the last 15 or so years. It's just sad he "appears to be" only owning up now that the excrement is all over the air circulating device.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby skull » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:27 pm

Maybe it has helped him in coming forward.

He could have remained hidden away and people would never have found out.

All this may have been the catalyst to the realisation that it would be hypocritical to remain as a representative of the sport. There was nothing for him to personally gain in coming clean apart from relieving possible guilt and hoping that it moves forward in cleaning up cycling.

I still respect the guy.

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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby cp123 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:55 pm

I know him and have ridden with him and think he has done a hell of a lot for cycling in the last 15 or so years. I'm not denying that. And I'm not kicking the guy - i'm honestly just well, disappointed. How do you know people would never have found out? There is probably a hell of a lot of blood and pee in lab land all around the world that is waiting for the day that a new test is developed. As has happened with the Lance issue. Who knows how many others out there may produce a positive result in the future from their time in the sport way back when?

Perhaps he was feeling guilty. Perhaps it was hypocracy. Perhaps it was fear that it's better to own up rather than face potential consequences another 5 years down the track when a sample of his may be confirmed as containing PEDs. I don't know. My point is that he still has had the last 15 years to come clean. And it's only now in the face of all the mess that he has. If you think that is kicking the guy, well, that's your choice too.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby twizzle » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:43 pm

I'm not going to kick him. It's pretty obvious that few riders were prepared to walk away from the sport after having spent years trying to get into the pro peloton. To make it that far requires determination that won't be killed off just because competing at the pinnacle had an extra entry requirement.

And once you leave... Who really wanted to know the truth without shooting the messenger? Big thumbs up to Steve for stepping past the point of no return.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby bookworm1707 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:25 am

Ross wrote:
jimboss wrote:Someone made the analogy of a doping cyclist to a drug dealer. And I think it's pretty accurate really.

I mean - when you are trying to take drugs off the street, sure you target a street dealer if you can. But you focus on the source, the supplier, the king-pins... the decision-makers... the culture creators.

The riders are street level. When are we going to go after those that actually pull the strings?



They are going after the suppliers such as Michele Ferarri, Pedro Celaya and Del Moral.

Recreational drugs are different IMO. If people are "pressured" into taking them it's only peer pressure. They can say no and walk away and choose to have different friends and aquaintances and a different life.

With the cycling and drugs it's more a life/career thing. If you want to be successful at the highest level in cycling then taking drugs was pretty much neccessary to keep up (literally keep up). pro cycling (and pro sport in general) is about performance and results. You can be the nicest person in the world but unless you are close to or breaking records then your just a wanna be or a has been. You'll only be club or state level competitor. Not condoning drugs in sport (or in recreation), just saying that's how it is/was.

I guess pro cyclists have the choice to to walk away (some did) and not participate in the drug taking but that a lot of times ended their cycling career and they have to find a "proper" job, but that would be very hard for a lot of people where cycling is their life and love and have already spent many years and many sacrifices to get where they are and the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" (pro cycling career in Europe) is within sight. If everyone else is doing it it makes the decision to dope easier.


As for catching those higher up, my belief is that part of the reason they have been so hard on Lance, apart from the denials, his status etc is that he was a part owner in the team, not just a rider. Therefore if the team was organising the doping then he was organising, not just taking. Lots of ifs, but if they are correct then he should have a higher punishment.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Ross » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:10 am

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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:13 am

bookworm1707 wrote:As for catching those higher up, my belief is that part of the reason they have been so hard on Lance, apart from the denials, his status etc is that he was a part owner in the team, not just a rider. Therefore if the team was organising the doping then he was organising, not just taking. Lots of ifs, but if they are correct then he should have a higher punishment.

There is no need for belief. He was shown to have engaged in doping activities that automatically result in a life ban and removal of results for the period in question. His position within and/or ownership of team isn't relevant.

Keep in mind that the USADA investigation was into 6 people, not just LA, but the reasoned decision report on LA was a requirement for the UCI to ratify the outcomes wrt to him. Others have accepted the sanctions, or have decided to take their case to the hearing that LA declined.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Chuck » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:44 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Sky & CA: Tells us the truth, and if the answer is you admit to doping, you're fired.


I can't say for sure that Sky's stance has anything to do with it, but Rogers has moved on....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael ... xo-tinkoff

He had an excellent year and did an awful lot of the hard yards for Wiggins at the Tour :?
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:02 am

Chuck wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Sky & CA: Tells us the truth, and if the answer is you admit to doping, you're fired.


I can't say for sure that Sky's stance has anything to do with it, but Rogers has moved on....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael ... xo-tinkoff

He had an excellent year and did an awful lot of the hard yards for Wiggins at the Tour :?


Well one has to wonder why he would decide to move at this time of year (i.e. after the transfer deadline), when none of his valuable UCI ranking points will go with him to his new team and significantly reduce his contract negotiation value.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Chuck » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:38 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Sky & CA: Tells us the truth, and if the answer is you admit to doping, you're fired.


I can't say for sure that Sky's stance has anything to do with it, but Rogers has moved on....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael ... xo-tinkoff

He had an excellent year and did an awful lot of the hard yards for Wiggins at the Tour :?


Well one has to wonder why he would decide to move at this time of year (i.e. after the transfer deadline), when none of his valuable UCI ranking points will go with him to his new team and significantly reduce his contract negotiation value.


Indeed.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby find_bruce » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:40 pm

Rogers' departure not linked to anti-doping policy, Team Sky says

It's an odd situation that's for sure, if not for this reason why did sky release him a year early? Would his ranking points have made a difference to Saxo-Tinkoff

Whether or not he doped himself, he seems to have hung around with a bunch who did
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:51 pm

find_bruce wrote:Would his ranking points have made a difference to Saxo-Tinkoff

Most definitely, they are in a struggle for the final couple of remaining pro tour spots, and at the moment they are behind several other teams.

Roger's 2012 points would have been enough to leapfrog them right up the rankings. In fact I think Roger's points would be nearly 1/3rd or more of Saxo's current team total, although I'm not entirely sure since it's pretty complicated with all the transfers.

But places are not based on UCI points alone. There's not a lot of transparency around the process, but that should not surprise people by now.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby jcjordan » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:11 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Sky & CA: Tells us the truth, and if the answer is you admit to doping, you're fired.


I can't say for sure that Sky's stance has anything to do with it, but Rogers has moved on....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael ... xo-tinkoff

He had an excellent year and did an awful lot of the hard yards for Wiggins at the Tour :?


Well one has to wonder why he would decide to move at this time of year (i.e. after the transfer deadline), when none of his valuable UCI ranking points will go with him to his new team and significantly reduce his contract negotiation value.

It's only been declared now it quite well have actually happened a while back.

Still suss though. Which really annoys me as I have always licked Mick.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby twizzle » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:09 pm

jcjordan wrote:It's only been declared now it quite well have actually happened a while back.

Still suss though. Which really annoys me as I have always licked Mick.


So... that's the real reason you were hanging around Stromlo on the CCC crit nights!

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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:45 am

lol ... So now we know who his stalker is.
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby jcjordan » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:25 am

Bloody auto correct on this phone takes some getting use to
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Re: Stephen Hodge stands down as Cycling Australia VP

Postby cp123 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:26 pm

but he's a married man... :twisted: :P
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