UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby Xplora » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:08 pm
On the juice, much?
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby sogood » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:30 pm
It's never a single party responsibility here.Parker wrote:I'm not against EPO. I'm not critical of Pharmceutical companies because of the gov't health cost, on the contrary I believe whole heartedly in business and making money at a reasonable cost to the consumer.
Cost of a medical product is determined by numerous factors, including research (both laboratory and clinical), risk of failure, government regulation and recent decades, expectation of zero complication by patients and willingness to litigate. Let alone of the later, the amount of regulation and duration of research required to bring a product to market is jaw dropping. Now add in all the unrealistic expectations of patient consumers and a court/media that favours the individual, cost can only go up and up. Take the silicon breast implant story where the scientific data doesn't even support all the claims, not only did the company lose the court case and paid out in millions, it also gave silicon a bad name within the medical device industry. As a result, all the millions to billions invested in silicon as a medical implant material vaporised overnight. That, is where one needs to ask questions about "reasonable cost to the consumer". Similar can be said of pharmaceutics, one sensationalist media report of an expected adverse event will tank a product in the market place.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby familyguy » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:02 pm
Jim
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby Nobody » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:03 pm
I still like it in my KK Road Machine.sogood wrote:...it also gave silicon a bad name within the medical device industry.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:49 pm
His IQ?familyguy wrote:Lance has got Big Mig on his side...that's gotta count for something?
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby DavidS » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:46 pm
DS
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby cpical » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:23 am
familyguy wrote:Lance has got Big Mig on his side...that's gotta count for something?
Jim
And Contador too!
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby James_d1 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:16 am
Cadel never "worked" with Ferrari, he completed a half day test back in 2000 our so, to determine if he could make the transition to road racing from MTB. I would hardly call this working.toolonglegs wrote:I notice Cadel has now admitted working with Ferrari as well ... still more muck to be flung around .
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby doggatas » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:44 am
Valverde going as far to say LA won those tours with his own legs. Can't find the article now, maybe Cycling News taken it down.
Contador says no respect shown to LA http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contado ... -armstrong
Indurain already mentioned.
English speaking editorials may have lost something in translation or it may say something about that particular era of cycling and perhaps even more recent times for particular nationalities.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby clackers » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:14 am
Spain was isolated from Europe during the Franco years, and just as a generation of East German athletes had earlier used steroids to catch up with the West, the Spanish were blood transfusion pioneers leading up to the 1992 Barcelona Olympics.doggatas wrote:
English speaking editorials may have lost something in translation or it may say something about that particular era of cycling and perhaps even more recent times for particular nationalities.
Notoriously tolerant of doping (and police wouldn't prosecute, unlike the French), Spain was the place to come to for transfusions and to escape testing scrutiny. Bruyneel set up the Postal team base in Girona.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby sogood » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:32 am
He is Spanish isn't he?familyguy wrote:Lance has got Big Mig on his side...that's gotta count for something?
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby sogood » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:50 am
This is a surprise to me given the blow up Contador had with LA in Astana. But I can also see his point. At present and the way USADA (as per many high profile legal cases), it's a case of piling all the responsibilities onto one individual (LA in this case) to ensure a conviction of one. Factually, doping was the dominant culture of the time, a most unfortunate era. But lynching of one to absolve all the wrongs of the time is not exactly right either. Otherwise I am seeing two types of commentary, one to use the opportunity to confess one's sins of the past and escape additional scrutiny. The other is to leverage the episode to highlight one's holier than thou anti-doping stance.doggatas wrote:Contador says no respect shown to LA...
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby herzog » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:59 am
They won basketball at the special Olympics with a bunch of guys pretending to be mentally handicapped.
They were later caught and there were resignations aplenty but the damage was done.
How could those guys sleep at night?
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:02 pm
Hence the dubbing of Armstrong as "Cancer Jesus".sogood wrote:But lynching of one to absolve all the wrongs of the time is not exactly right either.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby sogood » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:28 pm
Yes, can see that.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Hence the dubbing of Armstrong as "Cancer Jesus".
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby sogood » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:39 pm
Technologically advanced countries cheat through the latest technology and often get away with it.herzog wrote:We should also recall that Spain gave us probably the most appalling case of cheating in sporting history.
They won basketball at the special Olympics with a bunch of guys pretending to be mentally handicapped.
They were later caught and there were resignations aplenty but the damage was done.
How could those guys sleep at night?
Technological laggard countries develop asymmetrical solutions, but unfortunately for them, these often are seen as stupid by those holding the technology and generally ridiculed by all others and beat up by the media.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby toolonglegs » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:43 pm
any connection isn't great... Hence he made a public statement to get the info out there. I read what he did with him as well.James_d1 wrote:Cadel never "worked" with Ferrari, he completed a half day test back in 2000 our so, to determine if he could make the transition to road racing from MTB. I would hardly call this working.toolonglegs wrote:I notice Cadel has now admitted working with Ferrari as well ... still more muck to be flung around .
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Franck schleck payed 6k (?) to Fuentes if I recall for nothing. Just the connection is enough to tar him for life ( for Franck that is ).
Big Mig ... Clean
Valverde ... Another clean supporter...
Contador ...
You couldn't buy that sort of support
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby ianK » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:13 pm
Doesn't pull any punches - interesting to see how McQuaid will respond - another lawsuit in Switzerland seeking $6,000 in damages!!??
Last time I check, Paul Kimmage fighting fund - http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/ ... fense-fund - was well over $70k - should buy some good legal guns.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby sogood » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:21 pm
Are you kidding me? Planning to use legal aid services? $70k would barely pay for a formal legal opinion let alone trying to reach a worthwhile legal outcome. Legal fights are for those with deep pockets.ianK wrote:Last time I check, Paul Kimmage fighting fund - was well over $70k - should buy some good legal guns.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby toolonglegs » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:02 am
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby schroeds » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:19 pm
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby exadios » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:22 am
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby wizardhat » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:34 am
Woah, let's not go too far here!exadios wrote:Such as the ex post facto ban of recumbents and the reinstatement of records set in the 1930s (the UCI has a lot of form).
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby MADCAP » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:57 pm
lets all watch this - its a chilling story on Lance - Swears he never cheated...
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Re: UCI strips Armstrong of 7 TDF wins and bans him for life
Postby exadios » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:17 pm
Well, as long as we are talking about cleaning up the UCI..... You do want to clean up the UCI, don't you?wizardhat wrote:Woah, let's not go too far here!exadios wrote:Such as the ex post facto ban of recumbents and the reinstatement of records set in the 1930s (the UCI has a lot of form).
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