Doping in C-grade ?
- Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:15 am
http://wustl.academia.edu/AndrewRCoggan/CurriculumVitae" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
By the way, I just want to check something Winstonw.
Do you know what "e.g." means, as in the "e.g." that appears before the terms "Cat 3", and after the term "Good" in the power profiling tables?
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:39 am
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby The_Eggman » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:11 am
Christine Tham wrote: No, you didn't say that exactly. However, you did say this:
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby JustJames » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:37 am
Angels dancing on the head of a pin - how do they all fit?
http://pedallingcharm.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:23 pm
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Brad McGee raced in B grade last Tuesday.
I bet I could have taken him, he's only a weekend warrior these days.
NOT.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:10 pm
Damn, why didn't I take up real cycling when I was in my early 20's instead of my late 30's when I'd whacked on 43Kg of fat! (Currently I'm 33Kg lighter than I was in 2006).
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:28 pm
Get off it Alex. Coggan never said his tables were "a waste of time" for predicting race category. Only you said that.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:By the way, I just want to check something Winstonw.
Do you know what "e.g." means, as in the "e.g." that appears before the terms "Cat 3", and after the term "Good" in the power profiling tables?
Give me your spin on what he means by 'success' in what I quoted above.
If Andy, as a cool headed scientist, thought the tables really were a waste of time, he wouldn't have created them. No credible scientist would genuinely set out to cloud and confound the truth, or produce something that was wrong more often than it was right....He obviously thought the tables with category overlays have value as "a guide", which is different to your take that they are a waste of time.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:44 pm
Once again you introduce a strawman argument and misrepresent what others say. I'm not sure if it's a comprehension problem you have, or you just can't help yourself.winstonw wrote:Get off it Alex. Coggan never said his tables were "a waste of time" for predicting race category. Only you said that.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:By the way, I just want to check something Winstonw.
Do you know what "e.g." means, as in the "e.g." that appears before the terms "Cat 3", and after the term "Good" in the power profiling tables?
Give me your spin on what he means by 'success' in what I quoted above.
If Andy, as a cool headed scientist, thought the tables really were a waste of time, he wouldn't have created them. No credible scientist would genuinely set out to cloud and confound the truth, or produce something that was wrong more often than it was right....He obviously thought the tables with category overlays have value as "a guide", which is different to your take that they are a waste of time.
I never said the Power Profiling tables were a waste of time. They are a very helpful and useful guide to understanding one's individual power profile, which is precisely why they were created.
What I did say however was:
and I stand by that statement.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:So once again, use of these tables to predict race category is a waste of time. Go race to find out what grade you are.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:52 pm
Note that the link listed in the quote below has been superseded by that provided earlier in this thread.
This is the link to the post:Andy Coggan at the Wattage Foum 1 Jan 2006 wrote: The category guidelines associated with the power profiling tables, that is...version 4 is now posted at:
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/profile.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(The examples still need to be updated, but hopefully that will be taken care of soon.)
BTW, note that in addition to resurrecting the bracketed terms, the women's functional threshold power column has changed. Also, allow me to remind everyone that the primary purpose of these tables is to help people assess their own personal relative strengths and weaknesses, not to determine what category they should or should not be (which is why the category terms are preceeded by "e.g." and why the brackets overlap). If you really want to know how you stack up against others, go race your bike and find out!!
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/watta ... discussion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but you will need to be a wattage forum member to view it.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby toolonglegs » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:11 pm
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:41 pm
Only 191 pages to catch up or yawn to the power of 4 million trillion.toolonglegs wrote:Pretty much becoming as yawnful as the MHL one.
Any more of this dribble & we'll have a ban on power data or the BPL thread (ban power laws)
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby AndrewBurns » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:16 pm
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:01 pm
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:02 pm
Foe button...ZepinAtor wrote:Only 191 pages to catch up or yawn to the power of 4 million trillion.toolonglegs wrote:Pretty much becoming as yawnful as the MHL one.
Any more of this dribble & we'll have a ban on power data or the BPL thread (ban power laws)
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:30 pm
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby toolonglegs » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:36 pm
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:38 pm
Personally, I avoid the cult of personality worship.... And believe Andy didn't intend to waste anyone's time.toolonglegs wrote:Actually my consensus is I will take the word of someone who knows Coogan personally and professionally and has a pretty solid reputation for knowing his stuff inside and out.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby Marty Moose » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:51 pm
MM
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:57 pm
Yes, that must be it. A nice simple explanation for nice simple minds.Marty Moose wrote:Interesting thread but you guys are feeding a Troll and his appetite is growing
MM
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby twizzle » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:10 pm
As opposed to over-analysing everything?winstonw wrote:Yes, that must be it. A nice simple explanation for nice simple minds.Marty Moose wrote:Interesting thread but you guys are feeding a Troll and his appetite is growing
MM
Sent from my iThingy...
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby ft_critical » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:29 pm
Pop your reports in the Race Report thread and let us know how your theory evolves, won't you.winstonw wrote: Yes, that must be it. A nice simple explanation for nice simple minds.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby ZepinAtor » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:11 am
Ouch !!twizzle wrote:Foe button...ZepinAtor wrote:Only 191 pages to catch up or yawn to the power of 4 million trillion.toolonglegs wrote:Pretty much becoming as yawnful as the MHL one.
Any more of this dribble & we'll have a ban on power data or the BPL thread (ban power laws)
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby toolonglegs » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:07 am
Why don't you just ask in him in the forums he is regularly on, or just email him and get him to comment on this thread... pretty sure he probably would.winstonw wrote:Personally, I avoid the cult of personality worship.... And believe Andy didn't intend to waste anyone's time.toolonglegs wrote:Actually my consensus is I will take the word of someone who knows Coogan personally and professionally and has a pretty solid reputation for knowing his stuff inside and out.
Then we can see where an Australian C grade Vets for example fits on a chart that relates to US Cats... from what I understand Cat1 on that Chart would be roughly equal to a National Open level in Oz. Cat 3 would be equal to an average Australian A - B club grade somewhere there abouts. C grade club would be somewhere in the Cat 4 - 5 area... but depends where you race, who & how many turns up, if it is flat or hilly etc etc.Yes I can see how comparing more power numbers to that chart can tell me so much about who I will be racing and how I will do.
Bollocks.
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Re: Doping in C-grade ?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:21 am
Andy never intended/agreed to create the table as a category guide. But you do so love your strawmen. Is this the only logical fallacy in your armoury, or do you have some others?winstonw wrote:OK, BNA consensus is, using Andy's tables as a guide to race category is a waste of time, even though Andy never said this, and agreed to create the table as a category guide.
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