Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby LM324 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:04 pm
To all you RLJ, the truth is that you are giving cyclists a bad name
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby GraemeL » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:09 pm
The risk of making a mistake and being hit and then having to foot the bill, if I'm still alive.human909 wrote:What risk? It is far more risky to blindly follow what the lights say than to ignore lights completely and proceed when it is safe.GraemeL wrote:I always stop at all lights, it is just not worth the risk and besides, I like my body the way it is.
The vast majority of the time I simply stop for red lights but I honestly feel ridiculous waiting for a red light at an empty intersection. It is an inefficient waste of time. The "risk" of me running a red light at an empty intersection is negligible. There is far more objective risk riding straight in a typical bike lane next to parked cars.
If it's good enough for cyclists to run a red when it suits them, then we should all agree it's good enough for anybody, regardless of what they are riding/driving.
Drivers routinely cut us off, close shave etc, maybe they think the same about that as some riders do about red lights, it's ok I think it's safe.
Graeme
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby human909 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:30 pm
If I worried about not being able to see cars and proceed when safe I wouldn't get on the bike. The same "risk" exists at giveway and stop signs.GraemeL wrote:The risk of making a mistake and being hit and then having to foot the bill, if I'm still alive.
Yep. If you do so safely without inconveniencing or harming others then I have no objection.GraemeL wrote:If it's good enough for cyclists to run a red when it suits them, then we should all agree it's good enough for anybody, regardless of what they are riding/driving.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby marinmomma » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:32 pm
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby HelmutHerr » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:46 pm
Apologies. I try to keep the quote boxes as clean as possible and I misattributed that sentence. I'll edit it when I get to a proper computer.Oxford wrote:Please do not attribute that to me, I did not say that. In fact I vehemently disagree with that entirely.HelmutHerr wrote:...
If only this was about opinions and not observable facts.Oxford wrote:In my opinion it's a personal decision, it doesn't affect anyone else
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby queequeg » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:50 pm
I do cross against those annoying bike lantern crossings that are red only because there was no cyclist there to press the button at exactly the right moment (so they would have otherwise been green!).
Is this bad? Well, motorists are no angels. Coming home tonight a woman ran the red left arrow and nearly took me out on the bike crossing (on the green). She then proceeded to turn right at the next set of lights (10 secs later), from the middle lane and through a red arrow across three lanes of oncoming traffic! Yep, rego really helps stop red light runners!
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby find_bruce » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:35 pm
The other 3 fall into the category queequeg identified & 80% of riders will stop then proceed when they think it is safe.
Ironically 1 light is often safer to cross on the red.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby Lukeyboy » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:11 pm
I hope to god you don't come to a full stop at green lights.human909 wrote:Interestingly I treat all intersections the same way as I treat a STOP sign even if there is a GREEN light or a continuing road.Lukeyboy wrote:They are in areas where there is no traffic around these times so I treat the lights as a stop sign.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby roller » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:37 pm
i do this so that a driver who has seen me do this and then sees a rider who stops at red lights, will realise that not all cyclists are the same.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby ianK » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:12 pm
Should the road rule be changed to allow rider to proceed if safe - quite possibly, but, if and until it takes place I will stop, and if need be, wheel myself to the pedestrian button and activate the pedn lights
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby il padrone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:24 pm
While I generally do not advocate running red lights and in normal traffic never do, I can't see how someone is going to get hit going through a truly empty intersection ?? Thinking of the last time I did this - 11.30pm sitting in a double-lane right-turn lane (effectively in the middle of 5 lanes), where the sensor had not triggered the red arrow for me. I could have been waiting there for a very long time. There was no sound, sight or presence of any vehicles ahead, behind or to either side, apart from me, but sitting there I was mildly concerned about the driving of any vehicle that did happen to come up behind me while I was there........ waiting...................GraemeL wrote:The risk of making a mistake and being hit and then having to foot the bill, if I'm still alive.human909 wrote:The vast majority of the time I simply stop for red lights but I honestly feel ridiculous waiting for a red light at an empty intersection. It is an inefficient waste of time. The "risk" of me running a red light at an empty intersection is negligible. There is far more objective risk riding straight in a typical bike lane next to parked cars.
I ran the crazy red arrow.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby il padrone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:22 pm
I could have turned about and wheeled the bike back along the median strip and crossed to another side street. Or I could have ridden diagonally across the empty intersection on the green for straight through, to the far left corner to do a hook turn instead. I just don't regard such maneuvers as any more or less "dangerous" than going through that red light - the one that is faulty and does not detect a bicycle rider.
I prefer the simplest safe solution. Any time the lights do not work - proceed when safe, giving way to the right (and oncoming traffic as I was turning right). That's the rule.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby Xplora » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:14 am
And then, as a pedestrian, can be charged with jaywalking, or creating an obstruction... or wearing a loud shirt in a built up areaOxford wrote: so dismounting and walking to the safety of the side of the road was not an option then?
H909 pretty much sums it up - if you can't make the decision for yourself to proceed through an intersection without the aid of traffic lights, you should make the decision to not ride on the road. You might make a mistake one day... but if you ever have to deal with a red running car who made a mistake one day as you went through the green, you'll be no better off than if you had run a red and been hit. Imagine you were hit on the green and there were no witnesses. You'll still be going to hospital, and might even get a TIN.
Red lights are designed to minimise the incompetence of car drivers. Cyclist volumes don't ever require lights.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby LM324 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:58 am
how do you know the intersection is a "truly empty intersection"? If there is a green light cars don't look and don't expect for a vehicle to be going across their path. You might look right, then look left, then go and there might be a car coming on the right that you missed. Of course there is a risk.il padrone wrote:While I generally do not advocate running red lights and in normal traffic never do, I can't see how someone is going to get hit going through a truly empty intersection ?? Thinking of the last time I did this - 11.30pm sitting in a double-lane right-turn lane (effectively in the middle of 5 lanes), where the sensor had not triggered the red arrow for me. I could have been waiting there for a very long time. There was no sound, sight or presence of any vehicles ahead, behind or to either side, apart from me, but sitting there I was mildly concerned about the driving of any vehicle that did happen to come up behind me while I was there........ waiting...................GraemeL wrote:The risk of making a mistake and being hit and then having to foot the bill, if I'm still alive.human909 wrote:The vast majority of the time I simply stop for red lights but I honestly feel ridiculous waiting for a red light at an empty intersection. It is an inefficient waste of time. The "risk" of me running a red light at an empty intersection is negligible. There is far more objective risk riding straight in a typical bike lane next to parked cars.
I ran the crazy red arrow.
Il padrone look through the full posts before you make a comment. Even though he said "The vast majority of the time I simply stop for red lights" I doubt that Human909 does this when he makes comments like
I find it funny how many of the people that say they run red lights here are the same ones that have posted they don't like/don't wear helmets. Shows what kind of people these guys are.human909 wrote: I treat all intersections the same way as I treat a STOP sign even if there is a GREEN light or a continuing road.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby GraemeL » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:40 am
There is always a risk, mistakes are made.il padrone wrote:While I generally do not advocate running red lights and in normal traffic never do, I can't see how someone is going to get hit going through a truly empty intersection ?? Thinking of the last time I did this - 11.30pm sitting in a double-lane right-turn lane (effectively in the middle of 5 lanes), where the sensor had not triggered the red arrow for me. I could have been waiting there for a very long time. There was no sound, sight or presence of any vehicles ahead, behind or to either side, apart from me, but sitting there I was mildly concerned about the driving of any vehicle that did happen to come up behind me while I was there........ waiting...................GraemeL wrote:The risk of making a mistake and being hit and then having to foot the bill, if I'm still alive.human909 wrote:The vast majority of the time I simply stop for red lights but I honestly feel ridiculous waiting for a red light at an empty intersection. It is an inefficient waste of time. The "risk" of me running a red light at an empty intersection is negligible. There is far more objective risk riding straight in a typical bike lane next to parked cars.
I ran the crazy red arrow.
It's funny how peolpe here whinge and bitch about drivers, wanting to save a few precious seconds, not giving way at roundabouts, close shaves, opening their doors without looking etc etc.
Maybe those drivers have the same attitude as those here that run red lights, you know, the ones who think they are perfect, and think they are above the law.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black
Graeme
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:41 am
Please read my post thoroughly.Philipthelam wrote:I hope to god you don't come to a full stop at green lights.
Red arrows work while the green light operates for straight through. Only this red stayed red.il padrone wrote:While I generally do not advocate running red lights and in normal traffic never do, I can't see how someone is going to get hit going through a truly empty intersection ?? Thinking of the last time I did this - 11.30pm sitting in a double-lane right-turn lane (effectively in the middle of 5 lanes), where the sensor had not triggered the red arrow for me. I could have been waiting there for a very long time. There was no sound, sight or presence of any vehicles ahead, behind or to either side, apart from me, but sitting there I was mildly concerned about the driving of any vehicle that did happen to come up behind me while I was there........ waiting...................
I ran the crazy red arrow.
Philipthelam wrote:how do you know the intersection is a "truly empty intersection"? If there is a green light cars don't look and don't expect for a vehicle to be going across their path. You might look right, then look left, then go and there might be a car coming on the right that you missed. Of course there is a risk.
You mean to say that you never ever make a right turn apart from at controlled intersections with red turn arrow? Your cycle journeys would have to be pretty hamstrung!!!
I was talking about a suburban main road intersection at near midnight. The roads were completely empty in all directions as far as could be seen.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:47 am
Please re-read my post, especially noting the time of night and the circumstances. The only way a mistake could have occurred was if I fell off my bike and lay on the road for several minutesGraemeL wrote:There is always a risk, mistakes are made.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby human909 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:00 am
You know by checking with your eyes. The same thing you have been doing at GIVE WAY and STOP signed intersections. And the same as you are doing if you cross any road. If you can't trust yourself to do this then I'm surprised you even ride a bike.Philipthelam wrote:how do you know the intersection is a "truly empty intersection"? If there is a green light cars don't look and don't expect for a vehicle to be going across their path. You might look right, then look left, then go and there might be a car coming on the right that you missed. Of course there is a risk.
How do you come to that conclusion Philipthelam? By that comment I am saying that I will check for and give way to all traffic entering the intersection or on an intercepting path with me. Most of the time at traffic lights I will wait for the traffic to stop and the light to go green before I bother a thorough check and proceeding. If there is a red light and no traffic then I MAY check for safe passage and proceed.Philipthelam wrote:Il padrone look through the full posts before you make a comment. Even though he said "The vast majority of the time I simply stop for red lights" I doubt that Human909 does this when he makes comments likehuman909 wrote: I treat all intersections the same way as I treat a STOP sign even if there is a GREEN light or a continuing road.
What kinda of people is that Philipthelam? Did you mean those have lived in Amsterdam and seen how much better cycling can be? Those that don't believe everything the government tells us? Please do elaborate, I would like to hear what you are attempting to imply.Philipthelam wrote:I find it funny how many of the people that say they run red lights here are the same ones that have posted they don't like/don't wear helmets. Shows what kind of people these guys are.
How do you ever manage to negotiate non traffic light controlled intersections?GraemeL wrote:There is always a risk, mistakes are made.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:26 am
The 'sensible choice' that applies to all road users is to proceed with caution , giving way to any traffic, if the lights are faulty ie. if you have waited for at least one full cycle of the lights and they have not detected your presence.Oxford wrote:really beginning to think cyclists really are their own worst enemy. if you honestly think you should be able to pick and choose which traffic laws you obey and not make more sensible choices when they go against you,
Again, in my case this was at 11.30pm-midnight. The lights did not register my presence. There was no traffic. Others face this at 6.00am. It is a very specific circumstance, I'm not trying to give some general exemption.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby JustJames » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:36 am
If a cyclist goes through a red light when there is traffic around, he is being a dick, for a whole bunch of reasons. One of those reasons is that it p's off motorists who feel frustrated because they are obeying the road rules. If there is no traffic anywhere in sight on the green, but there are motorists in the queue on red, a cyclist should wait. The motorised traffic will trip the lights and all will be well.
But if there is no motorised traffic in any direction, then a cyclist treating the red light as a stop sign is just being sensible.
This stuff really isn't hard, red herrings about shoplifting notwithstanding. I'm amazed that this thread didn't just die out after the first few responses.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby HelmutHerr » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:28 am
Well, he is "Oxford". He can call the bill what he likes. The peelers aren't going to throw him in a panda for it.TimW wrote:rozzer
I'm more upset by "I could care less".
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby JustJames » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:38 am
I, for one, am deeply offended by the utter lack of respect for the rules of punctuation.HelmutHerr wrote:Well, he is "Oxford". He can call the bill what he likes. The peelers aren't going to throw him in a panda for it.TimW wrote:rozzer
I'm more upset by "I could care less".
If somebody is going to be this careless driving a keyboard, can you imagine the havoc they must wreak out on the roads? After all, it's not like you can pick and choose which rules to obey, is it?
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby HelmutHerr » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:49 am
You can't hold all internet commenters responsible for the grammar crimes of a few. Your right to split infinitives ends when they reach my Strunk & White.JustJames wrote:If somebody is going to be this careless driving a keyboard, can you imagine the havoc they must wreak out on the roads? After all, it's not like you can pick and choose which rules to obey, is it?
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions
Postby JustJames » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:55 am
Had to google Strunk & White...which led me to this:HelmutHerr wrote: You can't hold all internet commenters responsible for the grammar crimes of a few. Your right to split infinitives ends when they reach my Strunk & White.
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