Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby boss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:18 pm

Undertow wrote:
What about person C who explains why the law is unjust and attempts to fight the charge in court without having a sook?



They're an idealist. Possibly naive. And all they have to lose is their money.

I had a friend who was fined by a police officer for riding his bike without lights and riding on the footpath. He was actually walking along the sidewalk with his bike after a pub session, and a police officer decided that my friend had intent to ride his bike.

Long story short, took it to court, Judge apparently saw my friends point of view but sided with the cops. Had to pay the fine and court costs.

Either way, Oxford didn't make mention of Person C a.k.a Idealist. You brought this person up. Oxford was criticizing those dorks who complain when they get caught doing the wrong thing.
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by BNA » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:37 pm

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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:37 pm

jimboss wrote:I had a friend who was fined by a police officer for riding his bike without lights and riding on the footpath. He was actually walking along the sidewalk with his bike after a pub session, and a police officer decided that my friend had intent to ride his bike.

Long story short, took it to court, Judge apparently saw my friends point of view but sided with the cops. Had to pay the fine and court costs.


That is amazingly unjust. I wished he would have taken it further. Unfortunately sometimes our system is guilty until proven innocent. :?: :| I'm now confused how you can take a bike into my bike store for maintenance without "riding on the pavement".
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby boss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:05 pm

human909 wrote:
jimboss wrote:I had a friend who was fined by a police officer for riding his bike without lights and riding on the footpath. He was actually walking along the sidewalk with his bike after a pub session, and a police officer decided that my friend had intent to ride his bike.

Long story short, took it to court, Judge apparently saw my friends point of view but sided with the cops. Had to pay the fine and court costs.


That is amazingly unjust. I wished he would have taken it further. Unfortunately sometimes our system is guilty until proven innocent. :?: :| I'm now confused how you can take a bike into my bike store for maintenance without "riding on the pavement".


Totally unjust. But he was already down $1000-ish instead of originally paying $100 in fines and didn't have anymore energy (or money) for it.

To further elaborate, apparently the police officer watched my friends unlock their bikes, put their helmets on and walk down the street and deduced they would be riding them at some point in time. Whether or not the crime was actually committed did not concern the magistrate.

And, as a sidenote, by definition expiation notices are guilty until proven innocent.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Philipthelam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:18 pm

il padrone wrote:
Oxford wrote:Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.

You have it wrong there. It's not simply about cyclists. The rule on faulty lights is quite a clear one. If I was stopped at a right turn lane in my car and the sensor had failed to detect me, after I had sat through one or two cycles of the light not going green, I would also proceed if safe, giving way to the right and oncoming vehicles.

And it would be within the law.

Il padrone, Oxford is not referring to you. Nor are the others who are against RLJ. There is no need to keep trying to defend yourself, we already established in the first few pages that going through a red light with caution is ok if the light is faulty...
That's a good enough reason. Oxford is referring to the people who have posted in this thread that have completely disregard the traffic lights
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Undertow » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:21 pm

jimboss wrote:
human909 wrote:
jimboss wrote:I had a friend who was fined by a police officer for riding his bike without lights and riding on the footpath. He was actually walking along the sidewalk with his bike after a pub session, and a police officer decided that my friend had intent to ride his bike.

Long story short, took it to court, Judge apparently saw my friends point of view but sided with the cops. Had to pay the fine and court costs.


That is amazingly unjust. I wished he would have taken it further. Unfortunately sometimes our system is guilty until proven innocent. :?: :| I'm now confused how you can take a bike into my bike store for maintenance without "riding on the pavement".


Totally unjust. But he was already down $1000-ish instead of originally paying $100 in fines and didn't have anymore energy (or money) for it.

To further elaborate, apparently the police officer watched my friends unlock their bikes, put their helmets on and walk down the street and deduced they would be riding them at some point in time. Whether or not the crime was actually committed did not concern the magistrate.

And, as a sidenote, by definition expiation notices are guilty until proven innocent.


I'd have reported the cop for police brutality. Sure he hadn't committed it yet but I could tell he was intending to by the way he was making up crimes.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Philipthelam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:26 pm

This is my first reply to this thread and coincidentally my last...

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'Nuff said.


Beat you to it :) Nice poster by the way

3rd page

Philipthelam wrote: In b4 The 2nd Womble.
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To all you RLJ, the truth is that you are giving cyclists a bad name
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Comedian » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:28 pm

The only time I run the light is when I can't trigger them. I'm afraid I'm not going to just sit there until a car comes.

It could be argued that I could press the ped lights ..... But then in theory I have to walk the intersection. It's grey how I then become a vehicle again.

So, if there is no one coming ill run them in that case. If I was in a car I wouldn't buy then if I was I'd trigger the light...
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Comedian » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:30 pm

One other opinion of mine on this. Car drivers hate bike riders running reds because they can't do it. Unless it means the bike rider gets out of their way.

Doesn't change anything. Just an observation. :mrgreen:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Philipthelam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:38 pm

Undertow wrote:
Oxford wrote:I cannot help you with your failing to understand something this simple.

No, people still whine when they get caught breaking the law and think it is unfair even when they know they have blatantly done wrong. Worse still when its incontrovertibly shown to them such as video and they still try to justify it somehow.

I'm not pretending I don't break the law, I'm just not trying to justify it to anyone. I know for a fact that I probably break the law somehow everyday, but I do not go out of my way to blatantly break laws and then try to come up with lame reasons justifying it.

So please play the argument not the man, its not about me and what I do and me justifying myself. Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.


So you're saying that you break laws for the hell of it with no justification? In my opinion that's worse than breaking laws that you feel are unjust.


That is not what he said. Undertow and all of you who are picking at Oxfords posts, you're just trying to make yourself feel better because you feel guilty for disregarding traffic lights.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:38 pm

Philipthelam wrote:Oxford is referring to the people who have posted in this thread that have completely disregard the traffic lights

I'm not sure ANYBODY here has stated they have complete disregard for traffic lights. I certainly haven't. In fact I find traffic lights are an excellent initial indicator on whether or not it is safe to proceed.

The fact of the matter is I, unlike many here, are vocal and honest about individual breeching of an occasional road rule when it is evident that it that it will not inconvenience or harm nobody.

Whether it is having a bell on your bicycle, riding short distances a the footpath, not stopping completely at stop signs, or indicating every single turn you make, we all breech some road rules. If you believe you don't then you either are lying to yourself or not aware of all the road rules. :wink:

The question was asked in this thread and I honestly answered it. You and a few others are attempting to demonise such behaviour, which personally I think is amazingly self righteous.

Philipthelam wrote:That is not what he said. Undertow and all of you who are picking at Oxfords posts, you're just trying to make yourself feel better because you feel guilty for disregarding traffic lights.

I don't feel guilty nor proud for going through a red traffic light. I am simply making a what I see sensible and rational decision. Do you feel guilty for not having a bell on your bike? Or for not stopping completely at stop signs?
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby greyhoundtom » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:55 pm

So far I have avoided posting on this subject, but now that I have had a couple of beers.......... :wink:

Do I care that some cyclists go through red lights, don’t bother wearing helmets, don’t have suitable lights, or behave like complete dorks........not in least.......because sooner or later they will come a gutser and will have to pay the price for their own stupidity.

Do I think that this type of behaviour reflects badly on all cyclist.........not in the least.......an idiot is an idiot no matter what their mode of transport, and I believe the greater portion of road users recognise this.

As for those drivers that tar all cyclists with the same brush, they simply hate cyclists being on their road, and would still feel that way even if all cyclists behaved like angels.

For those who’s blood pressure goes through the roof when they see a cyclist behaving badly .......relax...... there are far worse actions happening in this world you should be getting upset about.........cyclist ignoring road rules is the least of your worry. :roll:
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Undertow » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:57 pm

Philipthelam wrote:
Undertow wrote:
Oxford wrote:I cannot help you with your failing to understand something this simple.

No, people still whine when they get caught breaking the law and think it is unfair even when they know they have blatantly done wrong. Worse still when its incontrovertibly shown to them such as video and they still try to justify it somehow.

I'm not pretending I don't break the law, I'm just not trying to justify it to anyone. I know for a fact that I probably break the law somehow everyday, but I do not go out of my way to blatantly break laws and then try to come up with lame reasons justifying it.

So please play the argument not the man, its not about me and what I do and me justifying myself. Its about cyclists in general justifying why they think they should somehow be exempt from traffic regulations at their discretion for some whatever reason when they feel they should be exempt.


So you're saying that you break laws for the hell of it with no justification? In my opinion that's worse than breaking laws that you feel are unjust.


That is not what he said. Undertow and all of you who are picking at Oxfords posts, you're just trying to make yourself feel better because you feel guilty for disregarding traffic lights.


I've been riding for about 5 years now and in that time i think i've ran about 3 red lights, after treating them as stop signs. I doubt that would make me feel guilty enough to pick on someone to try and make myself feel better.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:12 pm

greyhoundtom wrote:So far I have avoided posting on this subject, but now that I have had a couple of beers.......... :wink:

Do I care that some cyclists go through red lights, don’t bother wearing helmets, don’t have suitable lights, or behave like complete dorks........not in least.......because sooner or later they will come a gutser and will have to pay the price for their own stupidity.

Do I think that this type of behaviour reflects badly on all cyclist.........not in the least.......an idiot is an idiot no matter what their mode of transport, and I believe the greater portion of road users recognise this.

As for those drivers that tar all cyclists with the same brush, they simply hate cyclists being on their road, and would still feel that way even if all cyclists behaved like angels.

For those who’s blood pressure goes through the roof when they see a cyclist behaving badly .......relax...... there are far worse actions happening in this world you should be getting upset about.........cyclist ignoring road rules is the least of your worry. :roll:

+1 to that.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:23 pm

I also mostly agree with greyhoundtom. But I do disagree with some of the things greyhoundtom think are stupidity. But I'm cool with that. 8)

Many Australians seem to think not wearing a helmet is stupid. Most dutch think it is normal. If we leave the lecturing and self righteousness out then we can all get along. :mrgreen:
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:30 pm

Of course drivers always do stop !!!

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:35 pm

il padrone wrote:
greyhoundtom wrote:So far I have avoided posting on this subject, but now that I have had a couple of beers.......... :wink:

Do I care that some cyclists go through red lights, don’t bother wearing helmets, don’t have suitable lights, or behave like complete dorks........not in least.......because sooner or later they will come a gutser and will have to pay the price for their own stupidity.

Do I think that this type of behaviour reflects badly on all cyclist.........not in the least.......an idiot is an idiot no matter what their mode of transport, and I believe the greater portion of road users recognise this.

As for those drivers that tar all cyclists with the same brush, they simply hate cyclists being on their road, and would still feel that way even if all cyclists behaved like angels.

For those who’s blood pressure goes through the roof when they see a cyclist behaving badly .......relax...... there are far worse actions happening in this world you should be getting upset about.........cyclist ignoring road rules is the least of your worry. :roll:

+1 to that.


And again...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby damhooligan » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:38 pm

greyhoundtom wrote:So far I have avoided posting on this subject, but now that I have had a couple of beers.......... :wink:

Do I care that some cyclists go through red lights, don’t bother wearing helmets, don’t have suitable lights, or behave like complete dorks........not in least.......because sooner or later they will come a gutser and will have to pay the price for their own stupidity.

Do I think that this type of behaviour reflects badly on all cyclist.........not in the least.......an idiot is an idiot no matter what their mode of transport, and I believe the greater portion of road users recognise this.

As for those drivers that tar all cyclists with the same brush, they simply hate cyclists being on their road, and would still feel that way even if all cyclists behaved like angels.

For those who’s blood pressure goes through the roof when they see a cyclist behaving badly .......relax...... there are far worse actions happening in this world you should be getting upset about.........cyclist ignoring road rules is the least of your worry. :roll:


+1.

you should drink beer more often.
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby boss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:42 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
il padrone wrote:
greyhoundtom wrote:So far I have avoided posting on this subject, but now that I have had a couple of beers.......... :wink:

Do I care that some cyclists go through red lights, don’t bother wearing helmets, don’t have suitable lights, or behave like complete dorks........not in least.......because sooner or later they will come a gutser and will have to pay the price for their own stupidity.

Do I think that this type of behaviour reflects badly on all cyclist.........not in the least.......an idiot is an idiot no matter what their mode of transport, and I believe the greater portion of road users recognise this.

As for those drivers that tar all cyclists with the same brush, they simply hate cyclists being on their road, and would still feel that way even if all cyclists behaved like angels.

For those who’s blood pressure goes through the roof when they see a cyclist behaving badly .......relax...... there are far worse actions happening in this world you should be getting upset about.........cyclist ignoring road rules is the least of your worry. :roll:

+1 to that.


And again...


Me too
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Philipthelam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:46 pm

Alright, I'll admit to jumping to conclusions. Sorry

Mulger bill wrote:
il padrone wrote:
greyhoundtom wrote:So far I have avoided posting on this subject, but now that I have had a couple of beers.......... :wink:

Do I care that some cyclists go through red lights, don’t bother wearing helmets, don’t have suitable lights, or behave like complete dorks........not in least.......because sooner or later they will come a gutser and will have to pay the price for their own stupidity.

Do I think that this type of behaviour reflects badly on all cyclist.........not in the least.......an idiot is an idiot no matter what their mode of transport, and I believe the greater portion of road users recognise this.

As for those drivers that tar all cyclists with the same brush, they simply hate cyclists being on their road, and would still feel that way even if all cyclists behaved like angels.

For those who’s blood pressure goes through the roof when they see a cyclist behaving badly .......relax...... there are far worse actions happening in this world you should be getting upset about.........cyclist ignoring road rules is the least of your worry. :roll:

+1 to that.


And again...


Well said
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby find_bruce » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:08 pm

Glad to see we are getting back to discussing the issue & not the person - been a bit too much of the latter of late.

Almost all of us ride a bike because its fun. With aggro on the roads & aggro on de interwebs it's easy to forget that.

But enough from me, I am off to volvodrivers.com to complain that those wearing bowls hats are giving the rest of us a bad name :D
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:16 pm

find_bruce wrote:But enough from me, I am off to volvodrivers.com to complain that those wearing bowls hats are giving the rest of us a bad name :D

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

I'm two for two now! I drive a Volvo and I have two caps that I wear. (Not at the same time and they're not bowls hats!). One is an Irish Donegal hat, the other is a "Pub hat" from an outdoor sports company. :P

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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:43 pm

COME AT ME BRO!

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:P
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby poohkies » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:55 pm

After reading this thread, on the way home, I stopped at every Red light in town! I didn't stop at the read light that was less than 400metres from home :( i just wanted to get home and i was on the hill in saying that, the no traffic my way at all, and i was on the main road, there's sort of a bike path lane and makes no sense to stop as the line is no where near traffic turning!
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby Philipthelam » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:11 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:COME AT ME BRO!

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:P

HAHA there is a policeman standing there :)
so its either a closed lane for an event or the lights are stuffed up
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Re: Do you stop at lights? Are there exceptions

Postby HelmutHerr » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:35 pm

Philipthelam wrote:HAHA there is a policeman standing there :)
so its either a closed lane for an event or the lights are stuffed up

Or they're all riding past throwing bribes into his pocket like it's an 80s toll road.
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