Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Positive discussion on ebikes and pedal assist bicycles

Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:13 pm

I have just been wondering. How does the Pedal Assist work? You place the system on the crank arm and the hub responds to your pedalling. But how does it handle gearing? Is it just a sensor that says "You are pedalling...you are not pedalling" or does it try to match your rate?

I own one now and I am sure I will find out, but it's easier not to make silly mistakes if you know what you are expecting, I guess....I am just a scared weird little guy....

Thanks for any help

Nick
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by BNA » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:12 am

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby s3312345 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:12 am

Correct I believe it is just a on/off pedaling sensor. It is unaware of your gearing or amount of force you're applying to the pedals.
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:11 pm

Yeah as far as I can see it is just 5 magnets on a disk and a sensor (reed switch...hall?). I did not known this when I asked the question, because one of the kits (the one I opened first :x ) was missing the magnet disc.)

So I am assuming that it just tells the motor "someone is pedalling". Be interesting to see how that works out...how it all works together. Until I see it in action, I am not sure it's that great. Ah well...a reason to get out there and get a wheel on a bike!

Nick
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby Joeblake » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:31 pm

I built my electrike with a throttle rather than a pedal sensor. My big concern with pedal sensors has always been safety, taking off from the lights. I use the motor and the pedals simultaneously, so I can get across the intersection fairly quickly, as I've had a personal experience (though not on a bike) of taking off on green and having some lunatic go straight through the intersection at about 70 km/h behind me. So I'd be interested whether the pedelec restricts initial acceleration, and at what speed/pedaling force the motor delivers full power.

I think it's bad enough having to worry about setting up the crank rotation angle to gain maximum applied force without having to also worry about making allowance for delayed electric power. In my view the electric power should assist the pedaling rather electric power relying on pedal power.

Joe
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:52 pm

The kit I bought has both throttle and pedalec. I the absence of any sort of user manual, I will have to wait and see what happens. I will bear in mind what you said and watch for it, to see how the throttle, pedalling and the pedalec interact: does the pedalec for instance just turn on the motor up to whatever the throttle is set to...etc

Under the new rules, AFAICS, you are not allowed to _have_ a throttle if the bike is over 200W (that extra watts, out to 250W, has been handed over like pulling teeth) . You have to just use pedal sensing. Now _there_ I can't imagine how that works, when the bike has maybe 3 front rings and 6 rear sprockets. Actually responding to geared speed and pressure would start to get very sophisticated. I reckon that extra 50W is going to make DIY a lot tougher. :(

All will be revealed when I get off my lazy bum... :roll:

Nick
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby Joeblake » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:59 pm

My understanding of the 250 W/throttle question is that it only applies to these machines built after the legislation was passed, and that the "grandfather clause" applies to older machinery. Mine were built in 2008 and 2010 so that shouldn't be a problem. :wink:

Joe
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:42 pm

Yes that's true, thankfully. In fact I get the impression that as long as your bike _fits_ the old rules, it's OK to ride under the old rules. I have to hope so....so maybe that's why it's what I think :) . But I don't think anyone has been caught for any of this, and if we behave reasonably, the law will be in theory not fact for the huge majority.

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby Joeblake » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:52 pm

OldNick wrote:... if we behave reasonably, the law will be in theory not fact for the huge majority.

Nick



Image

Joe
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:01 pm

HEHE! SUP--ERRRRRR SMILEEEEEEEE!

As a cyclist and dog owner I get really angry at both when they interact and just assume they are right and yell and shout and shake fists. But the bikers who tear through the free-dog area really get me. They almost seem to be looking for trouble, just to get angry about. Same with powered PB's. We have a few around there that probably do 40-50KPH, petrol powered:noisy smelly and way too fast. They just get everybody a bad name.

BTW damn shame about having that lovely hill and your batteries all topped up. You are missing out on a freeby!

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:06 pm

I agree that just stopping, for say a set of lights, is not going to regen much. You probably only get about 1/3 of the kinetic energy you lost, on the way up again. But they only wanted about $10 for the cable, because it's already in the controller.

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby Joeblake » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:17 pm

OldNick wrote:
BTW damn shame about having that lovely hill and your batteries all topped up. You are missing out on a freeby!

Nick


It only takes me about 2-3 minutes to descend, so I wouldn't get much regen anyhow.

(This is me going down Gooseberry Hill Road, which is faster but shorter.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRAoa5tzR1I

I've actually lots of freeby since I park my trikes on my back patio which has got a transparent section of roof, and the sun shines on the panels for probably 5-6 hours a day, if I'm careful to move the trikes. But usually the batteries are fully charged so I don't need to worry about that. If find myself having to use one of the trikes two days in a row, and the batteries have not fully recovered from the previous day, I can plug the battery charger into my domestic power which is running off my roof top PVs so it's all solar powered regardless. :mrgreen:

Joe
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:16 pm

I left a comment :)

I had a schoolmate who lived in Kalamunda for a while and came down the hill every day to school. He had a speedo on his bike and believe it or not used to get to 45mph....work it out! :)

I can see that regen braking is only going to give a little bit, but as I say it cost me nothing to try.

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby Joeblake » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:24 pm

Did you see my Zig Zag Video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... ujdfdEl23s

It's much slower but takes a lot longer.

Before they put the roundabout in I once peaked down there (Gooseberry Hill Rd) at 79 kph on my bent bicycle. Whoooooooooooooo. :mrgreen:

Joe
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:41 pm

Comment left. Sure it takes longer but what a run! Is the motor used anywhere there in the video?

I was driving my light bus down there one day and some idiot was tearing UP the hill on a motorbike. Not nice. Words were said but he just ignored me.

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby Joeblake » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:51 pm

Replied to it.

No, the motor was not used anywhere. When I do you can really hear it.

Joe
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:48 pm

Ok. One of the hopes I had for the gearless was being a bit quieter. I hope so even more now, given this magnetic drag thing.

Still got to organise a couple of 6-sprocket free wheels for the kit. I forgot to order those. Unfortunately the LBS is usually $$ and while I want to support them, they have given me a bum steer a couple of times. So I will order and wait.

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby John Lewis » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:23 am

I tried a friends pedallec the other day.
It had a throttle control that only worked at walking pace. Probably to help when wheeling the bike.

I mounted the confounded thing, pedalled hard and it took off like a scared rabbit. Bolted clean away ( in the words of Patterson) and damn near bucked me off.
Had I been behind a car or another rider I'd have hit them. The ting must have sensed pedal force or something. It certainly didn't start gently. Give me a hand throttle any day.

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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:09 am

Was this an actual Golden Motors Pedalec? The one I have has no way to measure pedal force, just cadence. I am beginning to think that my worries are correct: if you are in a super low gear (as when you start off) it will sense cadence and apply that to the back wheel,but cannot allow for the gearing. So it assumes you want to go very fast. If you are in a high gear it will have the opposite problem. However if the one you tried had a throttle that only worked at snail's pace and .....hang on.

When you took off did you have the throttle full on? Maybe the pedal sensor just says "pedalling" and applies whatever the throttle has dialled in, so you use the throttle to set the the power and then just pedal to activate. . Just a thought Need to get my sprocket clusters and sort this out. I have been trying to download the manual for this damn thing and it keeps crashing.
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby John Lewis » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:48 pm

I don't know what the motor was to be honest. It was Chinese and I guess they were all much alike.

The throttle has no effect above a walk. I was not using the throttle at all when I took off to ride. Next time the owner visits I'll take a good look and post my findings.

John
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Re: Golden Motors MP3 and gearing

Postby OldNick » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:22 pm

Thanks, mate. This is like LED lights and torches: we the actual users have to sort out the real crap from the just yesterday's plate leavings. :D

Seriously although this thread is about the Golden Motor hub, the more user input the better.

For instance, on the forum _dedicated _ to GM motors (they are nearly as big as the GM we all know so well :shock: ) there is a guru who hates the pedal assist. Apparently it just TOOK OFF as soon as you started pedalling....full throttle...sound familiar? That may have changed.

I really need to put in some hours on this before I unleash my wife onto a driven bike. She has mechanical issues (she is BY NO MEANS dumb, but machines are meant to WORK Properly)...I know it's sad on both sides 8) . and I am starting to see that this can get a bit geeky.
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