tiagra vs veloce

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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby ozdavo » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:12 pm

chill wrote:I had Veloce on my daily bike. IMO on par if not slightly better than the 105 that it replaced but those differences might be user preference. Tiagra on the other hand is no comparison.


What model 105 are you comparing to? 5500, 5600 or 5700? There's a noticeable difference between each.
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by BNA » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:25 pm

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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby biker jk » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:25 pm

chill wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:
Ken Ho wrote:BAsic error is that you are considering that Veloce is "entry level" and therefore comparable to Tiagra. Veloce is Campag. They don't do a Tiagra level gruppo.


That's not the first time i've seen that sort of comment, what is the difference then? They certainly look pretty similar to me, i can't find any weights for the current Tiagra but i doubt there would be much difference there, and from working on my bike and my brother's, i have no problems with the build quality of the Tiagra. The only exposure i've had to Veloce was using a 2nd hand front derailleur on one of my bikes for a while.

If the error was considering Veloce to be entry level then people would be comparing it to Sora, or even the new Tourney. There are a few people saying this year's Tiagra is last year's 105, and i hardly think Veloce would be better quality than 105.


I had Veloce on my daily bike. IMO on par if not slightly better than the 105 that it replaced but those differences might be user preference. Tiagra on the other hand is no comparison.


Tiagra 10-speed will be on par if not better than 5600 series 105. I have 9-speed Tiagra (4500) on a wet weather bike and it works flawlessly. 10-speed Tiagra I presume is even better. I too am curious to learn why Veloce is better than 10-speed Tiagra?
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Zynster » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:57 pm

biker jk wrote:Tiagra 10-speed will be on par if not better than 5600 series 105. I have 9-speed Tiagra (4500) on a wet weather bike and it works flawlessly. 10-speed Tiagra I presume is even better. I too am curious to learn why Veloce is better than 10-speed Tiagra?


At this point no one here has actually ridden both to compare. I might have missed it but I haven't seen anyone's report on the new 10 speed Tiagra either. You'd expect that it would be better than the old one. On the other hand, there are lots of positive experiences (including my own) with Veloce. It really is very good for what you pay.

Maybe you could run a mix of Veloce and Tiagra and call it........ vitamin a, b, c, d and e. :oops:
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Zynster » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Zynster wrote:vitamin a, b, c, d and e. :oops:


LOL. Interesting substitution there. (What starts with V and ends with iagra?)
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:31 pm

Zynster wrote:(What starts with V and ends with iagra?)

A ban for spamming :P
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Zynster » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:49 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
Zynster wrote:(What starts with V and ends with iagra?)

A ban for spamming :P

A way to ruin a perfectly good joke. :roll:
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby familyguy » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:12 am

Zynster wrote:
biker jk wrote:Tiagra 10-speed will be on par if not better than 5600 series 105. I have 9-speed Tiagra (4500) on a wet weather bike and it works flawlessly. 10-speed Tiagra I presume is even better. I too am curious to learn why Veloce is better than 10-speed Tiagra?


At this point no one here has actually ridden both to compare. I might have missed it but I haven't seen anyone's report on the new 10 speed Tiagra either. You'd expect that it would be better than the old one. On the other hand, there are lots of positive experiences (including my own) with Veloce. It really is very good for what you pay.

Maybe you could run a mix of Veloce and Tiagra and call it........ vitamin a, b, c, d and e. :oops:


Having ridden 5600 105, and 6 year old Veloce...Veloce wins by a nose.

Perhaps, by previous reasoning:
New Tiagra > 5600 105
New style Veloce > 2003 QS style Veloce

Therefore:
Veloce > Tiagra

Plus I cant help but think of this when I hear Tiagra:
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby richbee » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:53 am

FWIW I have an eight year old Chorus 10s gruppo on my bling bike, and it still works as sweetly as the first day it was fitted. I've heard Veloce are made on the same production line as Chorus except with less "blingy" materials, so they should therefore give you comparable performance and life.

There's no trickle down of materials, only technology, last years Chorus/Ultegra is not this years Athena/105 etc, each groupset is built to a price point for a particular market.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby usernameforme » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:13 pm

richbee wrote: I've heard Veloce are made on the same production line as Chorus except with less "blingy" materials, so they should therefore give you comparable performance and life.

I'm pretty sure that Veloce is made in Romania while the higher end groups (not sure if this is Chorus inclusive this year) are made in Italy. I'm pretty sure Veloce was once made in Italy, but the lower-end groupsets are now made in Romania
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:12 pm

familyguy wrote:Plus I cant help but think of this when I hear Tiagra:
Image



:lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW both my brother and i had our bikes with us at work today so i took the opportunity to ride them back to back. I checked the date codes and his is November 2010 (so i'm guessing 2011 model) and mine is mid 2005 :shock: . The later model shifters feel a lot taller and seemed to have a longer throw, a bit lighter than mine and a slightly 'crisper' feel. If it makes sense, my shifters felt like more of a clunk, his more of a click. How much of that is down to his bike having done about 1,000k and mine having maybe 8 or 9,000 under it's belt is anyone's guess. In any case they both shift very well IMO.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Stuey » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:13 pm

Phil wrote:Went Veloce Brifters on the Commuter (plus campy cassette and Vento Wheels) cheap as chips online $95 for the brifters with Campy cables ....


Where from, Phil? :shock:
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby simonn » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:40 pm

Stuey wrote:
Phil wrote:Went Veloce Brifters on the Commuter (plus campy cassette and Vento Wheels) cheap as chips online $95 for the brifters with Campy cables ....


Where from, Phil? :shock:


Ribble.co.uk I would suspect.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Stuey » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:39 pm

You're right. Thanks. I don't really look at Campy stuff, but am just starting to look for a particular project. Good value!
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby DJIntegr8 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:15 pm

From all reports, it seems that Tiagra 4600 (2012) and 105 5600 (2010) are pretty similar. Currently running Shimano 105 5600 (2010) and Campagnolo Veloce 10spd (2012) on my roadies, so here's my take. Keep in mind I've ridden 2500km on the 105 and only 200km on Veloce.

Looks: Both look great on their respective bikes, the silver Veloce on my red steel Olmo and the black 105 on my black TCR. The Veloce cables are all run under the bars, the 105 gear cables (as are Tiagra) run out of the side of the shifter. Recently replaced the 105 cables to Goodridge, but I can't feel a massive difference between the two as far as cable routing goes.

Brifters: Veloce (Ergo-Power) uses a thumb shifter on the inside of the brifters to shift up (RD), compared to the single lever inside the brake lever for 105. Both only support a single upshift per push. My preference is with the 105 method, as the lever is more accessible (for me) at my usual hand positions. Downshifting on Veloce uses a lever like upshifting on the 105, where the 105 shifts up with a side swipe of the entire brake lever. Both allow you to mash down the gears (up to 3 each swipe) for those hills. FD side, Veloce drops you down to the small chainring with the thumb shifter, 105 with the lever. Veloce has micro-adjust for chainline on the small ring only, 105 has micro-adjustment on both the large and small ring. I prefer the shape of the Veloce levers, but the 105 levers are slightly larger and allow for more hand positions. I guess it's one of those things where you need to ride both to know which you prefer.

Shift feel/drivetrain performance: I haven't pushed Veloce in the hills or any traffic light sprints yet, but I love it's smoothness while cruising. Shifts feel positive but not clunky, always drops in where you expect it to. 105 by comparison seems a bit less refined. Shifts well under pressure though, downshifting on hills where I just need that extra gear, or upshifting off the lights quickly.

Brakes: Both running stock pads, but different rims and Goodridge lines on the 105 so not really a fair comparison. Veloce feels comparatively "mushy" under the hand, but still pulls the bike up without any worry. Braking from the hoods is easy with the higher pivot. The brake levers incorporate a very neat QR pin to open the brakes for wheel removal that still allows full braking power if you forget to close them. 105 brakes are pretty good for rim brakes, always feel they can stop me in any situation. The QR levers on the calipers mean that you have to remember to close them each time you head off. The bigger head of the shifter means that you get enough leverage from the hoods, but not as easy as the Veloce.

Installation/maintenance: Veloce was honestly a pain to install :evil: Who has a 14mm allen key to install crank bolts? That and the brifters were also a trial to attach to the bars. Once you have the right technique it's all good. The rest of the install was pretty straightforward. 105 has external gear cables which means you can replace the outers easily if needed, and also incorporate barrel adjusters on the brifters (I have barrel adjusters on the downtube for the Veloce). The Veloce (Power-Torque) crankset is apparently a pain to remove, luckily I haven't got there yet. Veloce didn't need very much tweaking for RD position, 105 on the other hand I seem to always take ages to get right.

I can honestly say I'm happy to ride either, both are so far reliable and have their own little quirks. it just depends mainly on your shifting preference. I think with braided brake lines, the brakes would be much better on the Veloce. And if I could only have the 105 shift levers on the Veloce brake levers 8)

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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Johndec » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:13 pm

usernameforme wrote:I'm pretty sure that Veloce is made in Romania while the higher end groups (not sure if this is Chorus inclusive this year) are made in Italy. I'm pretty sure Veloce was once made in Italy, but the lower-end groupsets are now made in Romania


I bought a complete Veloce groupset off Ribble about 6 months ago. I was expecting a box full of made in Romanian bits, however, from memory, everything except the brakes were made in Italy. Don't quote me as I've long since tossed the boxes they came in but I still have the box that the cassette came in and it was definitely made in Italy. BTW, my Romanian Veloce brakes are, to me, much better than the Jap Ultegra brakes on my other bike...
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Phil » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:16 pm

Stuey wrote:
Phil wrote:Went Veloce Brifters on the Commuter (plus campy cassette and Vento Wheels) cheap as chips online $95 for the brifters with Campy cables ....


Where from, Phil? :shock:


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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Stuey » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:35 pm

Thanks Phil, yes I had a look.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Stuey » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:37 pm

Johndec wrote:BTW, my Romanian Veloce brakes are, to me, much better than the Jap Ultegra brakes on my other bike...


John, what's the difference? I have no opinion on the matter; genuinely interested for my next purchase.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:54 pm

Stuey wrote:
Johndec wrote:BTW, my Romanian Veloce brakes are, to me, much better than the Jap Ultegra brakes on my other bike...


John, what's the difference? I have no opinion on the matter; genuinely interested for my next purchase.


So am i, i'm about to build up a bike and want really good brakes. I've read a couple of articles that attribute better braking with Campagnolo to a different pivot location in the brake levers?
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:04 pm

Get the best of all worlds.

10 spd Veloce levers
SRAM RD
10 spd Shimano Cassette.

Yes it works. It lets you use the more easily available (and potentially slightly stronger) wheels while giving you the lever feel of Veloce, plus the better trimming of the FD (whatever flavour you choose).

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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Johndec » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:44 pm

ldrcycles wrote:
Stuey wrote:
Johndec wrote:BTW, my Romanian Veloce brakes are, to me, much better than the Jap Ultegra brakes on my other bike...


John, what's the difference? I have no opinion on the matter; genuinely interested for my next purchase.


So am i, i'm about to build up a bike and want really good brakes. I've read a couple of articles that attribute better braking with Campagnolo to a different pivot location in the brake levers?


Yeah, I should be honest here, it's not the actual bake calipers that are much different, it's the levers. Campy levers are so much more sensitive yet at the same time controllable. I can't really explain it, you need to have used both systems. To me, two fingers on a campy brake lever is like a whole fistful on a shimano lever in an emergancy stop.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby usernameforme » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:22 am

+1 to the feel on campy levers, I'm often switching from 105 to Athena on my two bikes and the Campy stuff has much better power and modulation.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby humanbeing » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:26 pm

My Athena brakes stop me in about half the distance my 5600 105 brakes.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Phil » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:12 pm

Still more the levers I suspect.

I am running Shimano CX70 Cross Cantilevers. Before the Veloce Brifters arrived I was using the bike with Avid Speeddial 7 Flatbar Levers stolen off my Bacchetta Recumbent (which certainly worked alright with the Bacchetta X-eyed Dual Pivots, however going to the Veloce has radically improved the braking power, feel and modulation. Plenty of stop even in the wet.
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Re: tiagra vs veloce

Postby Stuey » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:48 am

That's interesting, and strange. It'd be so easy for Shimano to copy the pivot position, given the performance advantage. I guess they still sell enough!
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