Heart rate and training
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Heart rate and training
Postby Arlberg » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:47 pm
However no matter how hard I push myself, I seem unable to exceed 172 bpm. By not reaching my supposed max heart rate, does that mean I am actually skimping on training and I should try and push even harder and longer to get it up that last 4 bpm?
Incidentally, when I first started training the absolute highest I could push my heart rate to was 181, that was back in 2005 when I was 37. Then my max heart rate would have supposedly been 183. (220 -37 = 183)
Fitness generally seems to be measured from the resting heart rate, the lower the better. (my resting heart rate is 38 bpm). But what about the maximum heart rate? Does having a higher maximum heart rate also indicate a higher level of fitness? And does being able to exercise for extended periods at, or even above the supposed maximum heart rate indicate a higher level of fitness again? For example if I could exercise for extended periods at a heart rate of say, 180 bpm instead of the current 172 bpm, (and with a supposed max heart rate 0f 176 bpm) would that indicate anything?
Do Tour de France riders regularly exceed their supposed maximum heart rates? An imaginary rider aged say 25 at the peak of fitness and pushing his limits climbing the Alpe de Huez, is he able to consistently exceed his theoretical maximum heart rate of 195bpm? (220 - 25 = 195).
Again, I realise the formula 220 - age is only a very general approximation.
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:11 pm
Age based HR formula are not applicable to individuals. What they don't tell you is they have a standard deviation of about 15bpm.Arlberg wrote:I am 44, so using the (rather unreliable) equation of Maximum Heart rate = 220 - age, my max heart rate should come in at about 176 bpm.
However no matter how hard I push myself, I seem unable to exceed 172 bpm. By not reaching my supposed max heart rate, does that mean I am actually skimping on training and I should try and push even harder and longer to get it up that last 4 bpm?
HR (resting, max or any other HR) is not a measure of fitness. It's just a measure of how frequently your heart is beating.Arlberg wrote:Fitness generally seems to be measured from the resting heart rate, the lower the better. (my resting heart rate is 38 bpm). But what about the maximum heart rate? Does having a higher maximum heart rate also indicate a higher level of fitness?
What matters is how much power you can sustain, and even better is how much power you can sustain per kg of body weight.
The nature of fitness depends on the time frame over which you can sustain that power.
No.Arlberg wrote:And does being able to exercise for extended periods at, or even above the supposed maximum heart rate indicate a higher level of fitness again? For example if I could exercise for extended periods at a heart rate of say, 180 bpm instead of the current 172 bpm, (and with a supposed max heart rate 0f 176 bpm) would that indicate anything?
Refer the standard deviation in the formula I mentioned above.Arlberg wrote:Do Tour de France riders regularly exceed their supposed maximum heart rates? An imaginary rider aged say 25 at the peak of fitness and pushing his limits climbing the Alpe de Huez, is he able to consistently exceed his theoretical maximum heart rate of 195bpm? (220 - 25 = 195).
Correct. But don't confuse HR as a measure of fitness.Arlberg wrote:Again, I realise the formula 220 - age is only a very general approximation.
What HR can be used for is an indicator of relative intensity of sub-maximal relatively steady state effort.
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby sogood » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:38 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby you cannot be sirrus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:02 pm
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby Arlberg » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:43 pm
Alex, is it possible to over exert to a dangerous level (and cause a heart attack for example) by pushing yourself too hard in a normal healthy person, or is it like trying to drown yourself simply by holding your breath underwater-ie physically impossible?
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby Comedian » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:50 pm
For me the big thing is fatigue. If I'm fatigued I can't get my heart to spin. However I think it's just the legs that are dead and they are limiting things not the blood delivery. Does that make sense?
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:34 pm
Well assuming you are healthy, no cardiac illness, relatively young, not sick, not a smoker, no hypertension etc etc, then in general the heart will take whatever you throw at it and it is not dangerous. The body has mechanisms to protect you from dangerous physical over exertion. It's actually very very hard to get your heart rate up to a true maximal level.Arlberg wrote:Some great responses guys, thanks for the help.
Alex, is it possible to over exert to a dangerous level (and cause a heart attack for example) by pushing yourself too hard in a normal healthy person, or is it like trying to drown yourself simply by holding your breath underwater-ie physically impossible?
but don't take that as advice to go and smash yourself, have a heart attack and sue me
If in any doubt about your heart health, consult a qualified physician.
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby Just*managing » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:48 pm
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:03 pm
http://www.ausport.gov.au/sportscoachma ... g_syndrome
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby sogood » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:13 pm
In medicine, never say never. There have been cases where previously healthy subjects were induced into their first episode of arrhythmia and potentially sudden death through intense exertion. But this is rare and unexpected. Otherwise, you can work your heart as hard as you want and it'll just keep pumping at maximum level. You won't hold that too long as it's quite stressful for you.Arlberg wrote:Alex, is it possible to over exert to a dangerous level (and cause a heart attack for example) by pushing yourself too hard in a normal healthy person, or is it like trying to drown yourself simply by holding your breath underwater-ie physically impossible?
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby poohkies » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:16 am
Regards
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby Ross » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:37 am
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby poohkies » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:16 pm
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby WMC1 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:24 am
I do have a kidney deficiency (diagnosed with chronic kidney disease 8 years ago) and my blood is low in iron so I need to keep an eye on that. This may be causing my issue above? I can still ride 170km at an average of 30km/h and an average heart rate of 141 bpm and max of 171 bpm
I do try and push myself but don’t want to cause any harm, if you know what I mean.
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby sogood » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:47 am
That's a most respectable pace for 170km! However, anaemia (associated with low iron level/renal disease) will invariably limit your upper boundary.WMC1 wrote:I am 45 years old and find that if I get my heart rate between 165 and 170 bpm I feel a lack of energy or tiredness? Not sure why that is but once I get below 160 I am back to normal levels. My resting heart rate is 45 bpm.
I do have a kidney deficiency (diagnosed with chronic kidney disease 8 years ago) and my blood is low in iron so I need to keep an eye on that. This may be causing my issue above? I can still ride 170km at an average of 30km/h and an average heart rate of 141 bpm and max of 171 bpm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Heart rate and training
Postby WMC1 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:10 am
Thanks, that was the Ipswich 100 mile with 1600m of accents and descents so it was a tough ride.sogood wrote:That's a most respectable pace for 170km! However, anaemia (associated with low iron level/renal disease) will invariably limit your upper boundary.WMC1 wrote:I am 45 years old and find that if I get my heart rate between 165 and 170 bpm I feel a lack of energy or tiredness? Not sure why that is but once I get below 160 I am back to normal levels. My resting heart rate is 45 bpm.
I do have a kidney deficiency (diagnosed with chronic kidney disease 8 years ago) and my blood is low in iron so I need to keep an eye on that. This may be causing my issue above? I can still ride 170km at an average of 30km/h and an average heart rate of 141 bpm and max of 171 bpm
And that is why I can not keep up with healthier riders up steep grades (10% and above), I just run out of steam earlier but I can maintain a steady effort for a fair while.
Bikes: 1 x Steel 26” Cruiser, 2 x Alloy Roadies, 1 x Full Carbon Roadie.
It is unfair if only one bike gets all the attention.
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