Torpedo7 helmet concern

Questions about purchasing bicycles and parts

Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby sblack » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:56 am

I was in the market for a new helmet and noticed some helmets on Torpedo7 listed other standards but not AS/NZS 2063:2008. I sent them a querry regarding this and got the following response:
Thank you for your email.

If our description states Australian/NZ Standards or nothing at all, these helmets meet race standards.

If it shows up with a different code these are still ok to use, but not for race/event standards.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.


I've sent an email informing them that this may be the case in New Zealand but since they as a company have Australian warehouses and a .com.au website their reply is concerning, informed them that our laws are different here and suggested they update their descriptions to be clearer.

I'll let you know the response when it comes but for now just thought I'd give a heads up to be carefull if you're looking at purchasing a helmet from them or if you have bought one it may be worth checking it if you haven't.
Image
User avatar
sblack
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:38 pm

by BNA » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:16 pm

BNA
 

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby herzog » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:16 pm

I bought a helmet off them recently and it has the Australian standard sticker.

Not that I'm fussed either way mind you.
User avatar
herzog
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby drnick79 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:43 pm

Might want to be careful with not being AS and not being covered by TAC, etc 3rd party insurance.

S
Rides
2012 Giant TCR Advanced SL0
2012 Masi Soulville SS
drnick79
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: Latrobe Valley, Victoria

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby herzog » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:44 pm

Can anyone point to a factual instance of insurance or restitution being denied to an injured cyclist because their helmet didn't have the sticker?

Or is this just an urban myth?
User avatar
herzog
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby drnick79 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:50 pm

Good point, I guess I would rather just not run the risk.

S
Rides
2012 Giant TCR Advanced SL0
2012 Masi Soulville SS
drnick79
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: Latrobe Valley, Victoria

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:58 pm

What kind of sticker and number? can you provide a link because even for helmets prior to Ded 2010 there was still the AS/NZS 2063 requirement.
I am trying to understand the Torpedo7 response as it doesn't make sense - I could understand if they said if there is no info on the website description, you can assume that it still has the safety standard. It doesn't make sense for them to say without this sticker they CAN'T be used for racing but CAN be used legally on the road... they simply need this sticker to be used legally on roads.



Current info from NSW Roads and Transport on Helmet Standards (Should be the same Auswide)
Note - AS/NZS 2063 was updated to AS/NZS 2063:2008 in December 2010.

Helmet standard
Look on the bicycle helmet for the sticker or label certifying that the helmet meets the Australian and New Zealand standard (AS/NZS 2063) and has passed stringent safety tests.

An approved bicycle helmet is a protective helmet for bicycle riders of a type that complies with AS/NZS 2063 and has a mark certifying compliance with the above standard.

Helmets manufactured after 31 March 2011 must have an identifying mark from a body accredited or approved by the Joint Accreditation System of Australia and New Zealand (JAS-ANZ) certifying compliance with the above standard.

Accredited companies

Accredited companies that certify bicycle helmets can be found on the JAS-ANZ website, http://www.jas-anz.com.au . As of October 2010, there are three JAS-ANZ accredited bodies that can certify bicycle helmets to comply with AS/NZS 2063. These are:

BSI

Image

Global-Mark

Image

SAI Global

Image




And to Cycling Australia Helmet Standards

Cycling Australia wrote:AUSTRALIAN STANDARD AS/NZ 2063 - Bicycle Helmets

The helmet regulation was introduced as a result of cyclists having to comply with the Australian Road Rules. The basic rule is that in all Australian events on the road and track an approved helmet with the Australian Standard sticker (AS2063) must be worn.

The only events where this may not apply are noted in Rule 3.2.02 and are explained as follows:

a) TRACK - In all track events competitors shall wear an approved AS2063, ANSI, Snell or EN approved helmet

b) ROAD - In all road events with the exception of International UCI events (provided permits have been obtained), an Australian Standards approved helmet AS2063 shall be worn.

The CA Board amended rule to permit all competitors to wear internationally approved helmets, if an Australian Road Rules exemption is granted. This is of particular relevance in the road time trial as it removes the requirement by commissaires to determine between international and domestic riders as well as providing fairness to all competitors in being able to wear an approved aerodynamic helmet.

The events for which such an application may be sought include, but may not be limited to;

UCI Road World Cups (Men and Women)
One-day Road Races or multi-stage Tours which have been approved for inclusion on the UCI calendar.
The Australian Open Road Championships or similar event, where overseas or professionally contracted riders with a UCI registered team are competing and the results contribute to UCI ranking points.

3.2.06. Any modification to an approved helmet is strictly prohibited, including; swapping or tampering with stickers; structural or aerodynamic modification.

Failure to comply with this regulation will result in the rider being withdrawn from the event in addition to any other penalty that may be applied by the race official.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9132
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby jasonc » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:00 pm

herzog wrote:Can anyone point to a factual instance of insurance or restitution being denied to an injured cyclist because their helmet didn't have the sticker?

Or is this just an urban myth?


note: IANAL

theoretically, they could argue that using a helmet not meeting AS has increased/caused injuries and therefore reduce/deny payout...
EDIT: and also fine you for not wearing a certified tin lid.
Image
jasonc
 
Posts: 5988
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby zero » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:23 pm

jasonc wrote:
herzog wrote:Can anyone point to a factual instance of insurance or restitution being denied to an injured cyclist because their helmet didn't have the sticker?

Or is this just an urban myth?


note: IANAL

theoretically, they could argue that using a helmet not meeting AS has increased/caused injuries and therefore reduce/deny payout...
EDIT: and also fine you for not wearing a certified tin lid.


Unless your lawyer is incompetent, then the burden should be on the opposing parties to demonstrate that the helmet design used was materially less safe than an aus standards helmet, and that on the balance of probabilities the injuries were worsened by the relative performance of the helmet design compared to an aus standards helmet, and that the rider went to some effort or other to avoid an aus approved helmet. A casual rider purchasing from an australian retailer is probably not going to have been considered negligent in their efforts to procure an acceptable helmet, if it subsequently turns out to not have been approved.

However they wouldn't be able to escape the fine for not wearing an approved helmet, as that will be a strict offence.
zero
 
Posts: 2632
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby Ross » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:23 pm

Does this apply to MTB helmets?
Image
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 3752
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:39 pm

Ross wrote:Does this apply to MTB helmets?

Sure, though if you are riding off road then you wouldn't be legally required to wear a helmet, most sports cyclists however choose to wear a helmet and the helmet has to be sold as standards approved.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9132
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby Nobody » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:21 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
Ross wrote:Does this apply to MTB helmets?

Sure, though if you are riding off road then you wouldn't be legally required to wear a helmet, most sports cyclists however choose to wear a helmet and the helmet has to be sold as standards approved.
I think IP (Pete) who showed that if it's government owned land like a park etc, you still have to wear a helmet. It is only privately owned land that is legally exempt.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:48 pm

Interesting, I would have assumed that the road authorities jurisdiction end when you were off their facilities.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9132
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:41 pm

My helmets were purchased from Torpedo7 and were checked for compliance at Australian races
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14810
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:30 pm

They must have changed things lately, time was they said either 2063 compliant or "for off road use only".
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25793
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby sblack » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:00 pm

AUbicycles wrote:I am trying to understand the Torpedo7 response as it doesn't make sense - I could understand if they said if there is no info on the website description, you can assume that it still has the safety standard. It doesn't make sense for them to say without this sticker they CAN'T be used for racing but CAN be used legally on the road... they simply need this sticker to be used legally on roads.

Don't forget Torpedo7 is actually New Zealand based. My guess is the rules are different over there, sounds like the standards only apply at races over there. Do they have mandatory helmets laws? Would make sense if they don't that you're free to wear whatever helmet you like.

AUbicycles wrote:Interesting, I would have assumed that the road authorities jurisdiction end when you were off their facilities.

It applies to road related areas which most places people ride would be covered under part C of the definition:
13 What is a road related area

(1) A road related area is any of the following:
(a) an area that divides a road,
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road,
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated for use by cyclists or animals,
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.
Note. Vehicle is defined in rule 15.


Mulger bill wrote:They must have changed things lately, time was they said either 2063 compliant or "for off road use only".

I've noticed they still list this for their MTB helmets such as the Bell Slant. In fact if you enter the site using the .com.au address the uncertified road helmets are not listed. The problem appears if you just use .com and don't notice it defaults to the NZ site or if you do a google search and end up at a helmet such as the Bell Array. That was the one I noticed as I was searching for Bell Helmets when that came up and to my knowledge it isn't available to the Australian market.
Image
User avatar
sblack
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:56 pm

Velogear.com.au sell these Kali helmets cheap as chips and they have a sticker on them. I bought my wife one and she thinks its unreal.
Our Website is: http://www.pro-liteoz.com Find us on Facebook by searching for "Pro-Lite Australia"
User avatar
jacks1071
 
Posts: 2933
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm
Location: Mackay, QLD

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:58 pm

My helmet I got from T7 last year sports the latest AU/NZ standards stickers and meets all road and off road criteria if it doesn't sport "AS-NZS-2063-2008" numbers it isn't allowed to be worn as a safety device in this country so ask if the helmet your wanting to purchase has a sticker with that number in it.

Image
}SkOrPn--7
 
Posts: 1996
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:40 pm

According to cycling Australia, AS2063 is fine

http://www.cycling.org.au/?Page=17678
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14810
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:41 pm

The Australian and NZ standards, as I understand, are unified.
Torpedo7 also have an Australian based and to legally sell they would most certainly ensure that they are compliant.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9132
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby RonK » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:23 am

jacks1071 wrote:Velogear.com.au sell these Kali helmets cheap as chips and they have a sticker on them. I bought my wife one and she thinks its unreal.

Yes, I bought one from Velogear also, for the built-in GoPro camera mount. It definitely has an Australian approval sticker.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5352
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby jules21 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:20 pm

drnick79 wrote:Might want to be careful with not being AS and not being covered by TAC, etc 3rd party insurance.

3rd party (e.g. TAC in Victoria) insurance is generally no-blame in nature. breaching road rules is generally what leads to collisions in the first place. if they didn't cover you for that, there wouldn't be a lot of insurance getting paid out. they can't deny you coverage for not wearing the right type of, or any helmet.
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 8703
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:07 pm

I'm just not seeing what the concern is. Looking at the first helmet I looked at I see;

This helmet is certified as complying with the requirement of AS/NZS 2063:2008


http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/LRHLRNN77/title/limar-777-road-helmet
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14810
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby sblack » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:25 am

mikesbytes wrote:I'm just not seeing what the concern is. Looking at the first helmet I looked at I see;

This helmet is certified as complying with the requirement of AS/NZS 2063:2008


http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/LRHLRNN77/title/limar-777-road-helmet

Yes, they do sell helmets with the standards. The concern is that as a company with an Australian presence it would be assumed that all their helmets would.

Try the Bell Sweep although as I mentioned it's technically on their NZ site but not so obvious if you arrive from a search or by only entering .com instead of .com.au

Or from the Australian site the Bell Slant. A little more obvious in that it states off road use only although as discussed above a lot of off road use still requires an approved helmet.
Image
User avatar
sblack
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:42 pm

Agree the Bell Sweep is been sold without reference to the Aussie sticker. I would not buy it based on that.

The Bell Slant link isn't working, they may of withdrawn it from sale?

If I understand correctly, you are not required to wear a helmet off road, the helmet law only applies to public roads. Could someone please confirm/deny this statement.
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14810
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern

Postby sblack » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:38 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Agree the Bell Sweep is been sold without reference to the Aussie sticker. I would not buy it based on that.

The Bell Slant link isn't working, they may of withdrawn it from sale?

If I understand correctly, you are not required to wear a helmet off road, the helmet law only applies to public roads. Could someone please confirm/deny this statement.

Yes, it appears that some time today all the MTB helmets that are not certified have also been removed from the .com.au version of the site.

As for where he law applies, it applies to road related areas which is defined as:
13 What is a road related area

(1) A road related area is any of the following:
(a) an area that divides a road,
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road,
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated for use by cyclists or animals,
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.
Note. Vehicle is defined in rule 15.

So from the way I read that if the area is open to the public and you're allowed to ride there then the helmet law applies.
Image
User avatar
sblack
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:38 pm


Return to Buying a bike / parts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit