Can you help identify this frame?

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Can you help identify this frame?

Postby PANZR » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:11 pm

Hi all

I recently got this old frame but, I don't have any info on it, I don't even know what type of bike it is (fixed gear time-trial bike?)

It's extremely light with very thin walled tubing
The top tube is seamed but, the head, down and seat tubes are seamless
Rear spacing is 120mm with the obligatory Campy track-ends

As can be seen, the lugs are conservative, rather than ornate
There is quite an angle to the top tube...almost pursuit-like

To me the unusual thing is that despite the 'track-ends' it has a rear brake mount and internal routing for a brake cable in the TT so obviously not a track bike
The numbers 1880 are all that is on the BB shell

Some pics:

Image

Image

Image

Image

I threw on a few spares to give a better indication of geometry etc

Image

If anybody has any ideas regarding it's 'classification' or even better, ideas as to it's origins, please share

Thank you
Last edited by PANZR on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:49 pm

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Re: Can you help identify this bike?

Postby RobertFrith » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:49 pm

Sloping top tube, sloping in the TT funny bike way though. Have a fossick through here for clues. Retro forum folks could be able to help too, it's steel right :D
Image
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Re: Can you help identify this bike?

Postby GaryF » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:07 am

This may be a long shot but I think this may have been a custom built, one off, fixed or single speed bike frame. It looks like the builder was building to a 'wish list' of things he would like to see on his bike.The seat stay looks to be pinned prior to brazing and the filing of the brake routed ends in the top tube as well as the filing of the seat stay caps looks one off, hand done. The brazing of the head tube lugs is also a little messy yet perfectly functional.

I like it and would like to know more about the frame. I think it's a pretty unique frame.
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Re: Can you help identify this bike?

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:44 am

It's got a cool factor of 10, that I can confirm :wink:
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby PeteV » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:32 pm

Very cool looking frame! First dibs if you decide to sell it!
Merida Ride Lite 93 2012
Mojo Urban fixed
1984 Christoff R.I.P
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby HLC » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:40 pm

Nice frame buddy!

Lo-pro Geo, internal cable routing, no rear derailleur hanger (unless it has been filed off - and i only say this because this bike was obviously cabled for brakes at least)...

Definately someone's custom! Looks wicked.


Anyway, wanna sell me your Ofmega cranks???? <3 Could trade you some Dura Ace NJS cranks if you are interested!
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby HLC » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:42 pm

and with a 4 digit serial, shoot Hillman cycles in Vic an email. They used 4 digit serials, and they have confirmed both my Hillmans (one track, one road)
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby PANZR » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:53 pm

HLC wrote:

...wanna sell me your Ofmega cranks????


I too thought they looked like a certain something special when I first spied them in a box across the room at my local second-hand bike shop...but, alas they were not
I grabbed them for their similarity anyway
They are 'mearly' mid-range '84 Sakae CR 144BCD 170mm

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely contact Hillman Cycles and report back
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby cotterpin » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:22 am

Hi PANZR,
I think if you contact Hillman Cycles with that four digit number, you may find that your frame was built by the late George McDonald.
You'll notice the seat stay top has been shaped in a press. George used this method so he could then pin the stays into position and fire braze
the seat lug and stays in one hit. George developed this idea around 1979.

Looking at the images of the frame there's a few tell tale signs that its been modified by an amateur i.e. the brazing at the top head lug and
seat lug isn't to clean, also you can see where the seat lug has been broken, probably when the original tube was removed. This explains
the seamed top tube as a replacement.

If my guess is right and this is a George Mac frame you should be able to see where the seat and main bar have been pined both sides through
the bracket and there should be a large oval shaped breather hole through the seat bar into the top bar.

Cheers
Peter
a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby PANZR » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:19 pm

Thanks for your input

The other day I took it to a local vintage bike guru
While he doesn't know the maker, he told me similar to what you have stated...in that it's obviously been modified, a little sloppily but, it seems to have good integrity
He says it has had a new TT fitted and that the seat-stay bridge looks to also have been replaced by the looks of the brazing
Upon checking the track-ends, he felt they where most likely original
The brazing around the upper head-tube lug immediately gave the game away to him and there are indeed repairs to the seat lug as you say

While he couldn't pick the tubing, he did say they sounded very nice :roll:

Also, what I thought was a seam is apparently not...rather it just a score mark along the length of the tube, perhaps for alignment purposes?

I emailed Hillman over a week ago via their website but, I've not heard back from them

While I should be preparing it for a paint job, I can't help but take it out for the odd spin...in raw steel

Image

Cheers
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby cotterpin » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:02 pm

[quote="PANZR"]Thanks for your input
I emailed Hillman over a week ago via their website but, I've not heard back from them/quote]

Called in to Hillman Cycles last week and checked out the serial number book, unfortunately the numbers
only ran from 2000 (early 80's) to 4000's.
I'll try again in a couple weeks when Barry Hill returns from holidays. Hopefully he can dig up an older book.

Cheers
Peter
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby PANZR » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:35 am

That's mighty good of you

Thanks alot
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby cotterpin » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Hey PANZR,
Caught up with Barry Hill at Hillman Cycles, your frame was built by George McDonald for Hillman Cycles in 1979 as a special order for a client in NZ.
The late George McDonald was considered by the cycle industry as one of the best builders of his time.
Cheers
Peter
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby PANZR » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:15 pm

That's great news to me...thank you so much

I can now go ahead and plan a repaint of it
I will be sourcing decals from Cyclomondo

One thing, did you happen to get info on the tubing?

Thanks again

Damon
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby cotterpin » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:56 pm

PANZR wrote:One thing, did you happen to get info on the tubing?


Didn't get tubing info, but the flute on the inside of the chain stay tells me they are Reynolds 531.
My guess is the frame is complete Reynolds as that was Hillmans tubing of choice.
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Re: Can you help identify this frame?

Postby PANZR » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:54 pm

Hi all
Does anyone know where I can obtain a good set of Hillman frame decals?
I've checked Cyclomondo but, Hillman is not listed there...nothing on ebay either
Again, I tried to contact Hillman cycles but, I've not had a reply from them

Thanks
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