CX-Ray or Laser?
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CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby neild » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:23 pm
My question is in relation to spokes. I've built / rebuilt a few wheels, have a stand and tension meter and consider myself reasonably competent at building wheels. I only mention this as I have no issue with what spokes would be easier to build with. Would CX-Ray spokes offer a noticeable difference to Laser spokes in regards to performance? These will only be for commuting (28km each way) and recreational riding, no racing. There's quite a bit of price difference to use the CX Rays so I'm just trying to decide if its worth the extra $120 over the Laser spoke build?
Thanks and appreciate your comments.
Neil
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby __PG__ » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:39 am
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:48 am
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby neild » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:24 am
After posting this thread I did a bit more reading and read quite a few comments regarding Race rather than Laser. I normally use DT Swiss Competition spokes so I think I'll stick with Race ones. By the sound of it, while CX-Rays will build into a stiffer wheel it's mostly down to cost and how much you want to spend? Probably if I was building with something like 16f & 20r the CX-Rays would be better but at higher spoke counts not so much.
Thanks for the heads up on the SLF71W hub. I'll have a look at that. I'm also planning on building a set of Velocity Deep V's laced to disc hubs for my flat bar so I plan on ordering quite a few spokes.
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:27 pm
for your current weight and uses I would recommend the Race or CX-Ray 28/32 2x/3x to the Kinlin XR-270. You should be able to get away with a 24/28 but I feel that anything lower will be pushing it. With spoke selection it is largely down to how much you want to spend. If you can afford the CX-Ray I would go for it, but you won't be loosing too much by building with the Race or the Competition (maybe a bit of aero, but I'll doubt you'll notice that).
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby rifraf » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:01 pm
My wheels were built up by wheelbuilder.com in the States and after riding my heavily laden bike, towing a trailer, from
Mudgee NSW to Adelaide to Perth, I can report no problems nor issues with my wheels.
I'm currently considering building up a 29" Surly for Aussie off road touring and if I go ahead then I'll be getting the wheels built up
once again with the CX-Rays.
Why? Because they claim to be the best and I've read nowhere any good argument to say that they arnt. I'm not interested in fixing wheels or constantly replacing spokes cause I'm inherently lazy I guess. I figure I buy the best and I'll have to do the least (fingers crossed). Seems to have panned out ok.
Good luck with the choice
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby MichaelB » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:51 pm
I used Pillar spokes (6 of one, half dozen of the other) and found it easier to use the bladed spokes.
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby biker jk » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:26 pm
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:12 pm
That spoke angle...rifraf wrote:
I personally prefer the DT Aerolite as you can do this:
The Dt Aerolite are much better finished and they have a smooth transition between round/bladed shape. I believe that they are a higher quality, but they do cost more again...
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby warthog1 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:59 pm
usernameforme wrote:I personally prefer the DT Aerolite as you can do this:
The Dt Aerolite are much better finished and they have a smooth transition between round/bladed shape. I believe that they are a higher quality, but they do cost more again...
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby rifraf » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:45 pm
I understand that the 406 build is a particularly challenging one with the CX-Rays.usernameforme wrote:
That spoke angle...
I didnt ask why.
My instructions were for strength alone with no emphasis on aerodynamics.
An interesting pass-time indeed but if they are dearer than CX-Rays its not a hobby I'm going to pick upusernameforme wrote:I personally prefer the DT Aerolite as you can do this:
[img]idata.over-blog.com/0/02/72/10/randon-2008-news/aerolite.jpg[/img]
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby petal665 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:13 am
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:37 am
Lower spoke count wheels do not give a harsher ride, spoke length may effect the ride quality (IME it doesn't) but your lacing, rim/hub choice have a bigger effect than your spoke count on spoke length. The tyres, tyre pressure and rim effect the ride much more than your spoke count.petal665 wrote:Lower spoke count wheels give a harsher
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby petal665 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:52 am
That's all great in theory, but get hold of a wheel with the same rim and tires in both 24 and 32 and come back to me with how it makes no difference. I ride a lot of different wheels as I build them for people. Yesterday I rode a 24-28 Belgium Hed C2 to Dura-ace wheelset, last night I swapped the tires to a 32-32 Belgium Hed C2 to Ultegra wheelset. They feel different on the road.usernameforme wrote:Lower spoke count wheels do not give a harsher ride, spoke length may effect the ride quality (IME it doesn't) but your lacing, rim/hub choice have a bigger effect than your spoke count on spoke length. The tyres, tyre pressure and rim effect the ride much more than your spoke count.petal665 wrote:Lower spoke count wheels give a harsher
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:18 am
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby petal665 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:28 am
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:43 am
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby petal665 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:48 am
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:00 pm
I agree with you there, I'd personally recommend 28/32, but I'd disagree with the rest of the statement, prebuilt Mavic, Fulcrum and Shimano wheels all have spoke counts of under 24 and they seem to hold up just fine for both heavier riders and commuters (and both).petal665 wrote:24 spokes are still not enough
Oh, and sorry to the OP about getting off topic
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby neild » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:19 pm
In the end I went for 24 front & 28 rear Sapim Race all round. I've got a few builds going at the moment and planned projects so the $ saved on not using CX-Rays this time was a big consideration. Package has been sent and is on the way!
I decided on the 24f / 28r combination based on comments and the fact that I've been using R500's for quite a while and never had an issue with them and they're 20f / 24r. This along with the fact that they won't be used for daily commuting, maybe a couple of times a week. The remaining days will be on my flat bar (soon to be replaced by a CX disc bike when I find the right frame).
I'll post up my comments on the build & performance when I get them. I'm doing the Bendigo Belter in December so hopefully everything arrives and can be built by then.
cheers
Neil
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby usernameforme » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:26 pm
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby Velo13 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:22 am
Neil, you made a good choice.neild wrote:In the end I went for 24 front & 28 rear Sapim Race all round. I've got a few builds going at the moment and planned projects so the $ saved on not using CX-Rays this time was a big consideration. Package has been sent and is on the way!
I decided on the 24f / 28r combination based on comments and the fact that I've been using R500's for quite a while and never had an issue with them and they're 20f / 24r. This along with the fact that they won't be used for daily commuting, maybe a couple of times a week. The remaining days will be on my flat bar (soon to be replaced by a CX disc bike when I find the right frame).
I build a lot or wheels and always err on the side of extra spokes (read: caution), as the extra weight is minimal, the extra aero disadvantage is minimal, but the reliability of the wheel and stiffness is greatly increased.
As for the CX-Ray vs Laser vs Race argument, I find that the Lasers "wind up" a great deal as one tensions the wheel, and as a result the build requires more time, stress relieving and patience to get right. Once done though, they are a good strong spoke and I have not seen any failures due to the quality of the spoke.
The Race spokes, being thicker in the middle tend to wind up less, so are a little quicker and easier to build.
The great benefit of the CX-Ray (and all the new wide bladed spokes) is that you can see the blade twist as the spoke winds up, which makes eliminating wind up in the build really easy!
Lastly, make sure you lube those spoke threads and nipple seats (in the rim) before you build.
All the best,
Josh
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Re: CX-Ray or Laser?
Postby neild » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:24 am
Christmas has come early for someone. 2 weeks delivery from placing order which is not too bad. Will be sure to document the build for anyone interested.
Actually, that reminds me, I need to pick up a couple of new batteries for the kitchen scales.
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