Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Wal42 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:34 pm

As munga said, Edge is to Suntour as 105 is to Shimano, It's the bottom of their racing gruppo's, that being said, Suntour stuff was (in my opinion) a few years ahead of the others during that era, except to upgrade to Superbe or Superbe Pro you'd be pretty happy with it. I run late 80's indexed Edge gruppo on my Kenetic touring which I use as my daily commuter, it's fast & usually seamless, nearly on par with the modern brifter stuff (when tuned & maintained, but then I guess that applies to most stuff).


I secured a set of Campy Record D/T shifters & a set of Sprint 4000 series D/T shifters, nothing unusual for me both friction, also there is a possibility that #14 maybe secured later today, in negotiation stage, not sure what exactly it is, has triangle shaped cut out's in the lugs & the RD mount, if I get it then once it's here I'll photograph it post those & any frame numbers, looks like it has early Shimano (maybe 600 or 105) gruppo.
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by BNA » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:55 am

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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Velo13 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:55 am

Wal42 wrote:#14 maybe secured later today, in negotiation stage


With the seller or your wife?
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Wal42 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:08 am

No, the seller. The missus doesn't care how many bikes I own, as long as the bills are paid.

The pictures weren't the best, so I asked for better ones. On the better pictures, I noticed that the chain was rusted into both the RD & the cassette, the RD tension adjuster was fully rusted & the seatpost was inserted all the way into the frame. Alarm bells started ringing, there was a high possibility that the seatpost would have to be removed by force, the chain was definitely shot, possibly wheel bearings, headset & BB also, good chance the RD couldn't be saved. On an un-stickered frame, I wasn't going to take that much of a chance, so I retracted my offer. The bike sold on eblag last night for AUS$90, I'm guessing the seller will re-contact me when the poor person turns up & sees the condition it's in & backs out of it OR, they'll take it home, spray the chain with penetrative spray, find out that nothing budges, take it off to a LBS & get told that there's about $200-300 worth of repairs needed, then be very upset & re-list the thing on eblag.


What made me consider it in the first place?

It wasn't lugged for guards, meaning it was a racing frame rather than a touring frame.

The lugs & rear derailleur mount had a triangle shaped cut out, so I was thinking Europa, Elan or Albeni frame.

It was 7 speed Shimano D/T shifting, but not SIS, so was either 105 (which is what it was) or 600, meaning above the middle of the range from whichever manufacturer (possibly 3rd level from the top of the racing range).

Lastly, they seemed pretty happy to take AUS$100 for it (I now know why) & pull it from auction, I originally thought it was a strip, clean, re-assemble, chuck on some new bar tape, stick some tyres & brake pads in it, it would be ready to ride next Saturday. Total cost about $120 plus the purchase price, find out later what it was, then secure the correct stickers.

Would have been another bike saved from being converted into a single speed or having a modern groupset fitted to it, I have a large issue with the dwindling stock of good retro frames out there because people are converting them to single speed commuters or losing the bike roots by fitting late model running gear, I have a perfectly good late model (2002-5) aluminium frame sitting here, un-built, if someone just has to have a briftered bike, I'd gladly swap them for their D/T lugged frame, just to save one more bike being lost.

Yep, that probably annoys the cr@p out of some people, but what happens when all these lovely old steel or aluminium frames have been butchered? The current crop of CF bikes will be in the tip with their frames cracked & the whole history of the early bikes that were built to last will be gone.


What will be left? A few like myself, who value history, think I'm speaking out my @rse, how many 60's, 70's Aussie built cars do you see these days? How many real vintage cars do you see? Except for the occasional car show or club run, bugger all.

Look through the retro pages of this forum, probably 60% of frames are being built as single speed or with modern shifting system, why?

Because people don't appreciate D/T shifting, most guys I encounter think that D/T shifting is a pain, that it's fiddly & noisy, I run non-indexed on all my D/T shift bikes bar 1, raced & rode on D/T non-indexed shifting, it's only a matter of being used to it & in my opinion works superior to brifter shifting, you are limited to how much you can trim a brifter system, you aren't with D/T shifting, the only downside is it takes your hands from the bars to change gears, this wasn't too much of a problem when people learnt to ride in the drops all the time, these days everyone seems to want to ride on their hoods, riding in the drops appears to be a vanishing art.

Enough of my rant, off to clear my head by riding, yep a D/T non-indexed bike.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Wal42 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:53 pm

Interesting conversation with one of the young guys at work today, opened my eyes to something I thought was fair & reasonable.

My attitude to the older D/T shifting steel framed bikes, I stated my opinion on how I felt it took away bikes, but his counter point was that if people didn't convert the older steelies to either new gruppo's or single speeds then these frames would just be left to rust in sheds or banished to scrap metal bins, that I was in a minority & that people such as I could only 'save' a small percentage of steel framed bikes.

Don't believe how wrong my thinking was before hand.

Wise head on young shoulders, something my old head couldn't see.

So yes a leopard can change their spots, I now understand just how wrong I was, the more people do these bikes up, whether it be as a retro or with modern running gear or even as a single, the more bikes that are saved from dying a death either from rust or the metal recyclers crushing machine.

Guess I'll look at things just a little differently from here on.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby pentlandexile » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:24 pm

Passionate stuff, love it.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby rkelsen » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:39 pm

Wal42 wrote:Guess I'll look at things just a little differently from here on.

Awww... :(

I was enjoying your curmudgeonry.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby vaeske » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:25 pm

rkelsen wrote:
Wal42 wrote:Guess I'll look at things just a little differently from here on.

Awww... :(

I was enjoying your curmudgeonry.


+1

likewise, but hopefully the potty mouth will subsist to the brifters then this raturday...

bah that may be asking for too much lol.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Dan » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:25 pm

vaeske wrote:
rkelsen wrote:
Wal42 wrote:Guess I'll look at things just a little differently from here on.

Awww... :(

I was enjoying your curmudgeonry.


+1

likewise, but hopefully the potty mouth will subsist to the brifters then this raturday...

bah that may be asking for too much lol.


the ghost of bicycles past is a wise one indeed.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby bprb » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:13 pm

My main reason for putting on a modern groupset was safety, as the old brakes were seriously inferior to the new ones, even with top quality pads fitted. But yes, weirdly I actually came to like commuting with DT shifters — there were elements I did miss after replacing the DT shifters with those things that start with b and end with rifters.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Crowz » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:58 pm

bprb wrote:My main reason for putting on a modern groupset was safety, as the old brakes were seriously inferior to the new ones, even with top quality pads fitted. But yes, weirdly I actually came to like commuting with DT shifters — there were elements I did miss after replacing the DT shifters with those things that start with b and end with rifters.


Easy enough to fit new brakes + levers and keep your DT shifters if you like them :D
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Wal42 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:55 am

I agree with crowz, in fact if you had a look at my Verty you'd find very late model 105 calipers with current crane creek levers. Most of my other stuff, I've eased the slots in the calipers out to run current pads (in my case swiss stop ones).


I'm very traditional about looks but not at the expense of safety, most of the wheels I run are modern that look period, if I need a BB, I'll replace it with a modern cartridge one, same with headsets.

Some stuff I do is not primarily for safety, the Verty is currently 8 speed, will shortly be 9 speed dura ace D/T shifting, the Benny hopefully will be 10 speed Campy D/T shifting, it makes the bikes easier to ride so therefore a little safer, but in all reality the bikes will be faster (hmmm maybe that's not making them safer), but both are racing frames, I wouldn't consider doing one of my touring bikes with any more than 6 speed, the geometry, design wasn't intended for very high speeds.


Dan, don't know if I'd ever be called a 'wise one' (a smart @rse, maybe). I still have a lot to learn about bicycles & riding them, I once heard, " you should learn something new everyday, otherwise you've wasted a day", I still probably have lots to learn.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby bprb » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:15 am

Crowz and Wal, you're both right of course, and another time I would quite likely have just changed the calipers and levers. But it started with safety (brakes) and then I just decided to move the rest of the old bike to 10 speed Shimano to match my other bikes.
I do love the fact Shimano still does 10 speed Dura-Ace DT shifters, and did consider putting those on.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby vaeske » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:38 am

bprb wrote:Crowz and Wal, you're both right of course, and another time I would quite likely have just changed the calipers and levers. But it started with safety (brakes) and then I just decided to move the rest of the old bike to 10 speed Shimano to match my other bikes.
I do love the fact Shimano still does 10 speed Dura-Ace DT shifters, and did consider putting those on.


yeah, good on shimano, selling dt shifters for roughly 60-70. would do it..if i had some of those DA brake levers but then we're talking more cost. :/
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:13 am

IMO if they're properly set up sidepull or centrepull brakes are close enough to the performance of modern dual pivot brakes. I have a few bikes with original brakes (hell one with original pads even) and i've never felt like i needed any more braking power.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby pentlandexile » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:49 pm

Any of you characters au fait with the correct method to wrap Benotto tape?
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby munga » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:57 pm

never used it myself, but i'd read this first:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/retro- ... 14760.html
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby munga » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:09 pm

..and, take a look at some bar wrap porn here:

http://www.lfgss.com/thread85083.html
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby pentlandexile » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:40 pm

And I thought I had problems BEFORE I learned about the reverse harlequin!
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:15 pm

*Screams in terror. :)
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Dan » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:22 pm

Just like doing a braid gents.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:37 pm

*continues screaming.
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby vaeske » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:21 pm

Dan wrote:Just like doing a braid gents.


men don't know how to do braids dan.


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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby Wazza » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:02 pm

Hey Raturdayers, you wanna come to my territory this week? Start at the top of Shorncliffe then Redcliffe, Scarborough then back over the bridge, the back of Brighton, Sandgate then back to the start/end for coffee?
I know it's not the river loop but Redcliffe loop still starts with an 'R'? It would be all or Riverloop.

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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby munga » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:25 pm

yeah
and then youse can all drive 100km and come ride around my neighbourhood
fkn coasties.
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Retro Riverloop Raturdays :D

Postby vaeske » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:36 pm

munga wrote:yeah
and then youse can all drive 100km and come ride around my neighbourhood
fkn coasties.


LOL GOLD...
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