Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby wizzfizz » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:09 pm

Ahh summer, pack away the warmers for morning training without lights, and take some extra water in case the heat gets too bad... AND PUT ON YOUR RACE FACE FOR PDCC SUMMER SEASON!

The TTs have already been underway for a number of weeks on Wednesday afternoons at Hopelands, a bit tough for me to make it after work - but for those lucky enough to make it you get a timed 16km TT.

Sunday sees the return of the Criterium season. If you want to know what Crits are then I'll try and sum it up:
  • AWESOME.
  • Short course, usually less than 3km, often including technical cornering
  • Keep doing laps for your allotted time, then you get the bell which means 1 more lap
  • Since time is short, there are often many attacks, a lot of fun which develops your "race sense"
This season we have a new home course at the Perth Motorplex carpark, that means heaps of parking and no traffic!

To race you will need a Gold/Elite racing license from Cycling WA, so you are insured, at the moment we are not accepting 1/3 day licenses. You can save yourself a spot on the PDCC Website, or just come on down to see if you might be interested.

First race is this Sunday 18th Nov. Registration desk open from 8AM, racing starts 8:30AM. I'll be there running the timing gear.
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by BNA » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:36 pm

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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby cant_stop » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:36 pm

Really looking forward to racing some crits, although I doubt the base kms I've been riding of late will do much to help me :/ time for some intensity I guess!
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Redbull » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:25 pm

Hey Mark

Is the Motorplex the permanent location for the crits? Smeaton Way and Mandurah are still on the website so I'm a little confused (that's not unusual though :) ).

Cheers

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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby wizzfizz » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:56 pm

We have 6 races lined up there to see how it works out, couldn't get council approval for Smeaton Way.
If in doubt look at the event listing, I'll try and get the PDF updated.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Redbull » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:55 pm

Great

Thanks Mark
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Troy C » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:10 pm

wizz fizz, Is that right about the council approval for Smeaton Way?
That is a loss, West Coast Masters race there as well, I wonder how they are going with that side of things
I know ATTA are starting to have trouble as well. The Car vrs Bike, is making the powers that be shy away from granting approvel
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:21 pm

Troy that where the wcmcc hold their age titles ?
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:26 pm

Any women's grades? Any marshalled racces to show new racers how to race safely?
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby wizzfizz » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:35 pm

Troy and Marty: Unsure about what will happen with WCMCC at Smeaton Way, if you like the Motorplex then maybe something can be organised. For the mean time I have it down as "TBA"

Parker: We usually have at least a couple ladies, but numbers have historically not indicated we need a separate grade. New riders are often started in D or E grade depending on their fitness, I was a new racer only 12 months ago and I've found those grades to be really friendly and accommodating of new people.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:37 pm

wizzfizz wrote:Troy and Marty: Unsure about what will happen with WCMCC at Smeaton Way, if you like the Motorplex then maybe something can be organised. For the mean time I have it down as "TBA"

Parker: We usually have at least a couple ladies, but numbers have historically not indicated we need a separate grade. New riders are often started in D or E grade depending on their fitness, I was a new racer only 12 months ago and I've found those grades to be really friendly and accommodating of new people.

So that's a no and a no...
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby wizzfizz » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:15 pm

Parker I'm not here to get in fights, I feel my response was more of a No with a BUT. No, we don't have separated grade(s) for women. BUT, I know many of the D and E grade people having ridden with them over the last 12 months - they are a great bunch of people, regardless of their gender :)
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Karati » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:00 am

Parker wrote:
wizzfizz wrote:Troy and Marty: Unsure about what will happen with WCMCC at Smeaton Way, if you like the Motorplex then maybe something can be organised. For the mean time I have it down as "TBA"

Parker: We usually have at least a couple ladies, but numbers have historically not indicated we need a separate grade. New riders are often started in D or E grade depending on their fitness, I was a new racer only 12 months ago and I've found those grades to be really friendly and accommodating of new people.

So that's a no and a no...



Sounds like a perfect opportunity to get involved and try to develop something.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:31 pm

Karati wrote:
Parker wrote:
wizzfizz wrote:Troy and Marty: Unsure about what will happen with WCMCC at Smeaton Way, if you like the Motorplex then maybe something can be organised. For the mean time I have it down as "TBA"

Parker: We usually have at least a couple ladies, but numbers have historically not indicated we need a separate grade. New riders are often started in D or E grade depending on their fitness, I was a new racer only 12 months ago and I've found those grades to be really friendly and accommodating of new people.

So that's a no and a no...



Sounds like a perfect opportunity to get involved and try to develop something.

I'm working on stuff up a bit norther... specially with Northern Beaches Cycling Club and I only have so much time (I have a lot of time, but it's getting takeen up very quickly)

My suggestion is as follows.

a) organise a marshalled grade where those who've never raced before (but have ridden with a few others or none) can come along and be assisted around the course (Usually by experienced A-Graders) and shown safely how to race, at the bell lap, they get let go from their marshalls.

Racing is very intimidating, I don't care how nice the people are, it's a little scary on your first race, but to do the above, the option of a three day permit needs to be included for riders. I have a recretional licence and may race occasionally over summer, in some crits but the expense of a full licence is a bit much when I don't need it.

I'm not trying to have a go, I just see the potential to involve more people.

If you do get that organised for a couple of races, a marshalled grade, I'll come and I'll coerce some ladies into coming as well, because I know female riders who are interested in learning how to race. There's a big difference in racing a crit and actually racing a crit when you understand tactics.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:32 pm

Also, this applies across the board, from men, women and kids who might be interested but are scared.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Redbull » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:45 pm

Come and ride with the kids then.

I think there was about a dozen (on and off) that formed a pack and went around with Murray last season and at the road races. A couple of the older ones moved up to E grade and had a good go.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Marty Moose » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:26 pm

I guess if people are so timid as to need a guide to go in a race or won't go without one then they really have no place in a racing. Their indecision at being in any group let alone a quazi race one would put others at risk . There are plenty of group rides from shops that cater for these people to up skill without the pressure of "racing".At the end of the day racing is not for everyone which is why we have non competitive group rides. Peel do an awesome job of racing.

MM
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:24 am

Marty Moose wrote:I guess if people are so timid as to need a guide to go in a race or won't go without one then they really have no place in a racing. Their indecision at being in any group let alone a quazi race one would put others at risk . There are plenty of group rides from shops that cater for these people to up skill without the pressure of "racing".At the end of the day racing is not for everyone which is why we have non competitive group rides. Peel do an awesome job of racing.

MM

Actually St Kilda Cycling Club has what they call Latte Laps, a certain amount of races over the summer crit season where experienced races take them around the course and show them how to race, give them information and support a slow rider who still wants to learn.

It's attitudes like that of Marty Moose that disuade people from entering races, I started of at SKCC with Latte Laps, I had ridden in a bunch before but I didn't know anything about racing and this was a great way for me to get started and it wasn't intimidating.

St Kilda Cycling Clubs has one of the largest memberships in Australia and I it also has the largest female membership of any club in Australia and we're not just talking 50 women, they've provided a foundation to enable people to try in a safer environment. You then move up the ranks and you're probably a better racer than the person who just jumps into D or C grade.

There is nothing wrong with teaching people how to hold a pace line, conserve energy, how to race up a hill and hold your power up hill, which gear to use, what to look at and how to take a corner in a group.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby nickobec » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:21 pm

I understand that there has been some preliminary discussions about a PDCC open/learn to race day,

Were people interested in racing, would be taught introductory race craft like basic race tactics, holding a pace line, conserving energy, which gear to use, what to look at and how to take a corner in a group, etc. Then allowed to race in a controlled situation.

Parker are the latte laps, one chaperone per rider? How popular are they? Are they every SKCC meeting and how many riders?

In my opinion it is relatively easy transition from regular group riding to racing, compared to the scary learning to race experience for someone without group riding experience, I know that is the route I took.

One issue in WA is the number of club members, PDCC I understand is one of the larger clubs in WA, yet the total membership is less than the female membership of SKCC. I am sure all WA clubs would love to learn from the SKCC experience and increase their membership, particularly among women at all ages and levels.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Marty Moose » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:13 pm

I think you missed my point Rowena, I think this is already being done at most shop rides, sounds like SKCC have bridged the gap between social shop rides and racing. Do they also hold weekly social rides i.e various groups and then coffee??
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:58 pm

nickobec wrote:I understand that there has been some preliminary discussions about a PDCC open/learn to race day,

Were people interested in racing, would be taught introductory race craft like basic race tactics, holding a pace line, conserving energy, which gear to use, what to look at and how to take a corner in a group, etc. Then allowed to race in a controlled situation.

Parker are the latte laps, one chaperone per rider? How popular are they? Are they every SKCC meeting and how many riders?

In my opinion it is relatively easy transition from regular group riding to racing, compared to the scary learning to race experience for someone without group riding experience, I know that is the route I took.

One issue in WA is the number of club members, PDCC I understand is one of the larger clubs in WA, yet the total membership is less than the female membership of SKCC. I am sure all WA clubs would love to learn from the SKCC experience and increase their membership, particularly among women at all ages and levels.


Latte Laps from memory normally had about two or three experienced riders and I think when I tried it there would have been 15 to 20 people 'racing' and everyone gets a go on the front, the speed wasn't slow, it was still rather fast, so you still had to be fit and be able to ride in a group to do it, but it gave you an idea of structure and control on the race.

There popular, they've been running them for the last four years (and then some), I'm not sure exactly on how long they've been running them. But it's one of the biggest reason's for them to have been able to increase their membership. You had to have a three race permit to play.

Your opinion is not neccessarily the same as someone who is just starting out, it's best to step aside from what you think and wonder what they're thinking, the most important thing you take from this conversation is that there is a way to increase your membership and the participation levels by offering people an oppotunity to try.

Talk to me some more via email if you want [email protected] ... Probably I can help with numbers.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:05 pm

Marty Moose wrote:I think you missed my point Rowena, I think this is already being done at most shop rides, sounds like SKCC have bridged the gap between social shop rides and racing. Do they also hold weekly social rides i.e various groups and then coffee??

No, it isn't, some shops are offering people an opportunity to learn to ride in a bunch and some skills but that's about it and that's fine.

And, as a club, if you want to increase your membership why aren't you asking yourself, "why haven't we built a stronger foundation in which to gather people from the community who want to try, people who want to be apart of a club?"

I talked to a heap of clubs about what they were doing for women's development (that also means getting women to join) when I came to perth, and got sick of asking, till I found a club that was willing to let me do stuff, make things happen as well, start getting some female members, some diversity.

I got sick of, "that's not how we do it here..." nice little boys club.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Marty Moose » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:41 pm

Sorry I've missed the point didn't realise it was bout promoting women's involvement in "nice little boys club" organisations just about promoting cycling in general. If having an escort for new men/women increases their likelihood of joining a club from your experience then I guess that's a good thing.Will be interesting to see how the club your involved with go, hope it increases their membership and they grow we need another club NOR!

MM

ps nico I'll get out of your peel thread :) :)
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:20 pm

It's about everyone's involvement, I happen to have an interest in women's involvement in cycling, but, numbers means options, it means more races it means that the clubs that do have A and B grade women's racing might not have to combine the races because they'll get enough for both grades. It means that one day their may be a C-Grade for women, because a club made the time to develop a foundation.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Tornado » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:24 pm

I guess Parker it's a bit of the old "Build it and they will come" type scenario. Hopefully someone will be able to establish an environment where women can race solely amongst other women if they choose to.

Being male I can't claim to speak for the females, but I assume there are some that want to race amongst the males and test themselves against them (maybe show they can stick it to the boys) and others that want to have a competitive environment amongst other females. Either way I'm just happy that people are turning the cranks.

Women only gyms are highly popular I believe and I'm sure women only racing would also be quite successful if the opportunity was there. Just a matter of some like minded people putting something together.
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Re: Peel District CC - Summer Crits and TTs 2012/13

Postby Parker » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:58 pm

Tornado wrote:I guess Parker it's a bit of the old "Build it and they will come" type scenario. Hopefully someone will be able to establish an environment where women can race solely amongst other women if they choose to.

Being male I can't claim to speak for the females, but I assume there are some that want to race amongst the males and test themselves against them (maybe show they can stick it to the boys) and others that want to have a competitive environment amongst other females. Either way I'm just happy that people are turning the cranks.

Women only gyms are highly popular I believe and I'm sure women only racing would also be quite successful if the opportunity was there. Just a matter of some like minded people putting something together.

Some of us aren't good enough too race against the men, I know girls in Melbourne who are but still they like to race in their own women's grades.

It's says we're going somewhere
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