Supernova lights

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Supernova lights

Postby il padrone » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:43 am

Supernova has made some modifications to their dynamo lights that improve their side visibility and they've also boosted the output somewhat

http://supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3pro2.html
http://supernova-lights.com/en/products ... ight2.html

Supernova wrote:New! All Supernova rear lights now 4 times brighter and with side illumination



Trendy thriller video ad as well. My daughter is all into the 'Supernatural' series and this smacks of the same style.

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:02 am

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Re: Supernova lights

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:02 am

Nice video and good looking lights. Pricey but the quality is there.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby Aushiker » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:28 am

Pity the advert was not about the E3 Pro 2. Would like to see them in action.

The pricing on the Supernova E3 Pro 2 is AU$179 ex http://bike24.net which compares favourable with the forthcoming Busch & Muller Lumotec IQ2 Luxos 179U at AU$188 ex http://Starbike.com . Of course the Supernova lacks the USB charging option of the Lumotec IQ2 Luxos.

BTW does anyone know how 305 lumens compares to 70 lux reported by Busch & Muller for their light?

Thanks Pete for the heads-up as well.

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Re: Supernova lights

Postby Chris249 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Aushiker wrote:BTW does anyone know how 305 lumens compares to 70 lux reported by Busch & Muller for their light?
Andrew


A VERY educated guess (from a neuroscientist cyclist who has a PhD and research fellowship in visual motion perception at Australia's top university) is that increasing lumens over the level of a standard light is unlikely to improve a driver's perception of a bike.

A single point of light, no matter how bright, provides very little information on distance or velocity of the object it is fastened to, and extra lumens can prevent the driver seeing the shape of the object (in this case, a rider and bike).
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby greyhoundtom » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:01 pm

Aushiker wrote:BTW does anyone know how 305 lumens compares to 70 lux reported by Busch & Muller for their light?

Andrew

From a very uneducated ex carpenter ex greyhound trainer........ the way I understood it, is that Lumen measured the output of the light source, while Lux measured the effective area illuminated by a light source.

When manufacturers provide information of their light in either Lux or Lumen there is no way of comparing the two without knowing the perimeters used to calculate the quoted Lux, such as area illuminated and the angle of the light-beam.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby il padrone » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:43 pm

greyhoundtom wrote:From a very uneducated ex carpenter ex greyhound trainer........ the way I understood it, is that Lumen measured the output of the light source, while Lux measured the effective area illuminated by a light source.

Not quite correct.

http://www.brillianz.co.uk/data/documents/Lumen.pdf
The lux (symbol: lx) is the SI derived unit of illuminance or illumination. It is equal to one lumen per square metre.......

....Lumens measure "luminous flux". This is a measure of the total number of packets (or quanta) of light produced by a light source (e.g. a globe or fluorescent tube). This is the “quantity” of light emitted by the light source. The purpose of lux is intended to tell you how many lumens you need given the area you are trying to illuminate.


Lumens is the total amount of light output. Lux measures the intensity of that light in a given area. So 305 lumens may be spread all over the shop, giving a very low lux, or concentrated into a focused beam, giving a much higher lux.

Image


It really depends on what you desire in your headlight beam. I do know that the Supernova E3 Pro with a 305 lumens output is the European 'glare-free lens' and it has a more focused beam, thus giving a higher lux reading I'd expect.

E3 Pro symmetrical beam - 370 lumens (I have this light)
Image

E3 Pro glare-free lens - 305 lumens (on seeing the beam shot I kinda wish I'd got this one :( )
Image
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby Aushiker » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:34 pm

il padrone wrote:E3 Pro symmetrical beam - 370 lumens (I have this light)


Do you run a Busch & Muller rear light with your Supernova light?

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Re: Supernova lights

Postby il padrone » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:54 pm

On my road bike I have the first model of the E3 and run a B&M Seculite 1W tail-light (the mudguard-mounted model). With the more recent E3 Pro on the Nomad I have the E3 tail-light, which is very bright as well but doesn't have any reflector. If I had my choice again I'd probably use the B&M Topline Plus.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby Aushiker » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:50 pm

il padrone wrote:On my road bike I have the first model of the E3 and run a B&M Seculite 1W tail-light (the mudguard-mounted model). With the more recent E3 Pro on the Nomad I have the E3 tail-light, which is very bright as well but doesn't have any reflector. If I had my choice again I'd probably use the B&M Topline Plus.


Okay thanks. I assume that turning on the Supernova turns on the Busch & Muller okay?

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Re: Supernova lights

Postby warthog1 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:52 pm

This bloke reckons the phillips saferide range of lights are the go. Any experience with them?
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby il padrone » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:01 pm

Aushiker wrote: I assume that turning on the Supernova turns on the Busch & Muller okay?

Yes, works very well, no problems at all.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby MattyK » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:35 am

warthog1 wrote:This bloke reckons the phillips saferide range of lights are the go. Any experience with them?

Have them (front and rear), love them. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26723&start=225#p863084
The available documentation for them is poor, that's about the only negative. There are undocumented features like battery fault warnings (blinking blue lights while charging) and a low battery warning on the rear light (small green LED that comes on).

For thoughts on both Philips and Supernova, read this site: http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/ ... ex_en.html Its likely that Supernova's lumen claims aren't being met in real world testing; Philips' are.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:19 am

MattyK wrote:
warthog1 wrote:This bloke reckons the phillips saferide range of lights are the go. Any experience with them?

Have them (front and rear), love them. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26723&start=225#p863084
The available documentation for them is poor, that's about the only negative. There are undocumented features like battery fault warnings (blinking blue lights while charging) and a low battery warning on the rear light (small green LED that comes on).

For thoughts on both Philips and Supernova, read this site: http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/ ... ex_en.html Its likely that Supernova's lumen claims aren't being met in real world testing; Philips' are.


You've sold me Matty, thanks :D
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby VRE » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:39 am

Chris249 wrote:... extra lumens can prevent the driver seeing the shape of the object (in this case, a rider and bike)

Which can actually be a GOOD thing: if the motorist believes a motorbike, not a bicycle, is approaching, they tend to treat it with more respect. Sad, but true.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:42 am

VRE wrote:
Chris249 wrote:... extra lumens can prevent the driver seeing the shape of the object (in this case, a rider and bike)

Which can actually be a GOOD thing: if the motorist believes a motorbike, not a bicycle, is approaching, they tend to treat it with more respect. Sad, but true.

+1

That has been my experience, as I have posted about elsewhere.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby MattyK » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:49 am

Motorcyclists, even when running headlights at all hours, still don't run high beams that dazzle oncoming drivers. Bicycles shouldn't either. Not to say that you shouldn't have lots of lumens, but they should be spread flat and wide where you need them. The ~7000 lumens from my BMW are far less irritating than the ~500 from a Magicshine.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby VRE » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:02 am

MattyK wrote:Motorcyclists, even when running headlights at all hours, still don't run high beams that dazzle oncoming drivers. Bicycles shouldn't either. Not to say that you shouldn't have lots of lumens, but they should be spread flat and wide where you need them. The ~7000 lumens from my BMW are far less irritating than the ~500 from a Magicshine.

Less irritating to you. I find some car headlights to be way too intrusive, and brighter than most bicycle lights.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby MattyK » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:08 pm

VRE wrote:Less irritating to you. I find some car headlights to be way too intrusive, and brighter than most bicycle lights.

Which cars? Specific models, or just random individual cars? If the latter, it's likely not a design issue, more likely a particular user issue (eg incorrect aiming, or fitting HID globes to a system designed for incandescent filaments)
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:53 pm

On bicycles the current crop of concentric beam 'marsupial-fryers' are a regular concern for many bike-path commuters. I have seen some that are definitely brighter than car headlights ie. I've seen them on the road, alongside car headlights, which, despite greater wattage, have design-standard optics to prevent dazzle.

At the same time I have been driving when a following car has had headlights (in urban streets on low beam) that are so penetratingly bright to be a real distraction and irritation. So much that I have been forced to dip the rear view mirror. These are generally recent model cars, often European, with those ultra-white HID lights. There is something about their beam features that is 'over the top'.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby Crawf » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:49 am

Blatent plug - I'm switching from a seat post mounted e3 tail light to a rack mounted, so my seat post mounted e3 will be available if anyone is interested <6mths old, going cheap.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby Chris249 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:53 am

il padrone wrote:
VRE wrote:
Chris249 wrote:... extra lumens can prevent the driver seeing the shape of the object (in this case, a rider and bike)

Which can actually be a GOOD thing: if the motorist believes a motorbike, not a bicycle, is approaching, they tend to treat it with more respect. Sad, but true.

+1

That has been my experience, as I have posted about elsewhere.


The problem is that if the driver sees only a single point then they have no way of knowing how far away the object is, or the speed at which it is moving. See, for example, "Automotive Lighting and Human Vision" by Wordenwerber et al.

Therefore if your light is bright enough to effectively destroy the driver's ability to see the rider, you are taking away vital information about your position and speed.

Secondly, motorists have MASSIVE problems interpreting the speed of motorcycles by their headlights, and can easily be out by some 60% or more - see "Judgments of approach speed for motorcycles across different lighting levels and the effect of an improved tri-headlight configuration" by M. Gould a, D.R. Poulter b, S. Helman c, J.P. Wann. So it appears that there's little solace to be found in dazzling drivers into thinking you are a motorbike.

I'm no expert in these things, but I'm married to someone who has a PhD in the accuracy of visual perception of moving points of light, was top honours student out of about 5,000 undergrads at her uni, has a fellowship at Australia's top university, rides each day, and lost her previous husband when his bike was struck by a car in low-light conditions. Although she has not looked at this issue specifically, her gut feeling is that extra power does NOT equal safety. I think I'll take such an expert's point of view on this.

There's very little that is straightforward and predictable about human vision and visual perception and processing. Given the market in powerful bike lights, one would have thought that the manufacturers could have provided some evidence that their products actually increase safety. At the moment there appears to be no evidence that they do.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby il padrone » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:54 am

The 'marsupial-fryers' started out as lights for off-road night MTB rides, where illuminating every square inch of the rough track ahead of you is essential. There are very few other vehicles to warn/dazzle so the bright output and concentric beam is not an issue - the higher beam is even beneficial to illuminate overhead branches that may wipe you off the bike.

These same lights have been transferred to road bikes with no modification of the beam to produce a road beam. Road beams require a good optic design (mostly in the reflector) to throw a bright beam onto the road to light up the surface and any hazards, but give a dimmer throw of light ahead into drivers/riders eyes to identify your presence on the road. There is a clear horizon to the beam that you can see in beam shots.

The new (about to be released) B&M Luxos
Image



Speed judgement by others is always tricky with just one light - an argument for having two headlights of lower intensity and good reflective materials.

Image

The ancient Cate-eye HL500 of 1990 - while a dim performing battery light compared to the current crop, it probably had much better optics for road use. Optic design is something today's battery headlight designers seem to have flunked at uni.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby Crawf » Thu May 30, 2013 4:17 pm

*Bump*

Any E3 users (dynamo powered) had issues with their lights yet?
My E3 Pro front is fine but the E3 tailight failed altogether (thank heavens I always run backup lights) and I noticed that the standby light for both was also not illuminating once I got home and parked it up in the garage - i'm thinking the capacitor has gone? Has done 11,000+km.

So...
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby RonK » Thu May 30, 2013 4:25 pm

I've used mine for about 3000km with no problems so far. I wouldn't bother with a rear light again - the E3 tailight has little side visibility and I prefer a brighter flashing light anyway. And no wiring clutter on the bike frame.
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Re: Supernova lights

Postby wraithrslib » Thu May 30, 2013 8:14 pm

hmm great info.
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