Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby coates_hbk » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:12 pm

trailgumby wrote:I run Conti GP4000s 23's on my commuter bike, and anything over 100psi is too harsh. I'm 80kg and carry panniers, sometimes with laptop and mains adapter within.

120psi ... :shock:


i run the same tyre and size on my tri's, but at 120 rear, 110 front....and your right, harsh on the bumps, but fast when its smooth! :D
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by BNA » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:23 pm

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:23 pm

Well... I've had more of these tyres blow off. Some several times. I've loaned my wheels to mates, and they've had them blow off too.

Sometimes... You fit them and no trouble other times.... Boom! When I pump them up now I wear ear muffs!

Anyway, just to post an update.. After a mate borrowed my wheels and had one pop off the rim at 40kph I've officially given up on these tyres. Before anyone gets excited I've been running them at 120 and the stated maximum for rim and tyre is 145(10 bar)

I love them... They are fast, wear well, and reasonably puncture proof but I can't live with the threat of one blowing off while riding.

I might use them up on my hybrid where the speeds are lower and there aren't rim brakes to get caught on a escaping tyre.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby eeksll » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:56 pm

I have to say your a brave man for riding on them at 120 when you know they blow at 140 :!:

So to clarify, you pump them up to 120 rode around on them, they didnt blow off, then you pumped them to 140 and they blew off?

Anything further the Germans had to say?

My vittoria zaffiros that came on my road bike said something like 90-145psi (shimano r500 wheel). I ran them at 140psi for months cause well I just assumed thats what to run it at. Did not have the tyre blowing off.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:20 pm

eeksll wrote:I have to say your a brave man for riding on them at 120 when you know they blow at 140 :!:

So to clarify, you pump them up to 120 rode around on them, they didnt blow off, then you pumped them to 140 and they blew off?

Anything further the Germans had to say?

My vittoria zaffiros that came on my road bike said something like 90-145psi (shimano r500 wheel). I ran them at 140psi for months cause well I just assumed thats what to run it at. Did not have the tyre blowing off.

No, the maximum recommended pressure for both the rims and the tyre is 10 bar. That doesn't mean the tyre should blow off at that pressure.. It should be safe at that pressure.

I emailed ze Germans and they claim they shouldn't blow off until 290 psi!!!

To clarify I've had failures with multiple ultremo zx and dd's on three sets of wheels, mavic kysrium elite, and Durace c24 and c50's.

It's back to continental force and attack for me.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby eeksll » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:26 pm

Comedian wrote:That doesn't mean the tyre should blow off at that pressure.. It should be safe at that pressure.


I would also expect they would still be well within safe range.

Comedian wrote:I emailed ze Germans and they claim they shouldn't blow off until 290 psi!!!

To clarify I've had failures with multiple ultremo zx and dd's on three sets of wheels, mavic kysrium elite, and Durace c24 and c50's.

It's back to continental force and attack for me.


i was wandering if it was the tyre or a dodgy tyre, sound like tyre
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Nobody » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:02 pm

You must have good roads/paths around your way. Tried my 23s at 90/100 and found I was losing a bit of control on the rougher bits and cornering didn't feel as confident. Back down to 85/95 psi again. I'm ~82Kg. Many years ago when I lived in Perth, I used to run my tyres at 125psi and didn't think anything of it. But the roads there were much better.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Reman » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:50 pm

I run a 120psi rear only due to 60-70 odd kgs going through it (me and panniers), that appears to achieve the magic 15% drop for these, ie. 23c GP4000s.

Fronts get a plush 80psi!

When I was running 32c the rear only needed 80psi with the same weight.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby chill » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:03 am

It's been a year, why did you keep buying them?

I've been using Ultremos for years and find that they can be finicky with certain rims and you need to be particular about seating them.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:18 am

chill wrote:It's been a year, why did you keep buying them?

I've been using Ultremos for years and find that they can be finicky with certain rims and you need to be particular about seating them.


I thought I was going OK with them... I thought it was just the one tyre so I bought some more. I'm only just reaching then end of that supply now. :mrgreen:

It seems that if you get them seated and all happy then they will stay on fine. However you won't know whether you've got it right for a few days because they can just blow off without warning at any time in the first 24 hours in my experience. :o

While I have run them at 10 bar I wouldn't now that I know the issues. If one blows off and grabs a brake you've got real issues. If it's a front it could be very unpleasant.

I did actually entertain trying to get it on video (it's pretty spectacular) but each time you destroy a tube and ... it might happen immediately... 1 minute later... 5 mintues... who knows. :shock: :evil:

Did you know that the decompression is so great that you actually get condensation pouring out of the tyre afterwards... :mrgreen:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby biker jk » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:33 pm

I have raced on Ultremo ZXs on Shimano RS80 C24 and C50 rims and no problem whatsoever. Mind you, I inflate to 105psi front and 112psi rear. There's no need to go to 120psi. It sounds like you are overinflating or had a series of dud tyres (less likely).
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby damhooligan » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:32 pm

Comedian wrote:First time I pumped it up to 140 (max is 145) ... came up stairs... BOOM. I go down and it's popped off the rim.

Comedian wrote:Mavic say 138 is their recommended max.


You clearly exceeded the max of the rim.
Mayby the problem is not the tyre ??
Have you asked mavic for info on this?

You mentioned on your follow up , you used different rims, whats their max ??
And did you use the full 10 bar on those rims as well ??

Also as recommended by others you don't need 140 psi for your situation,but having said that , they should not have popped.
Especially not in your friends situation where 120 psi was used.
That still worries me, as this could happen to others.

I would personally send out an email stating your concerns,to both mavic as well as schwalbe , and be asking for a refund/compensation.
As you are allowed to expect a tyre to work,after putting it on.
As you are clearly experience enough to put on a tyre, this can be ruled out as a problem, so the problem has to be either the rim , or the tyre.
Either way, you should not have to pay for their defaults.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby scirocco » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:53 pm

Tyres blowing off is an error in fitting them. I have done it myself more than I should have. As others have said, it's all about getting the bead seated properly. For tyres that are easy to slip on by hand it is really important.

Pump up to 30-40 psi and look closely all around the the rim and wiggle it around so it is all evenly seated around the whole 360 degrees on both sides. Let all the pressure out again if necessary.

Nothing to do with max pressure (unless you're going crazily stupid over the limit). If you don't exceed the wheel or tyre limits and everything is in good condition then it's operator error 99% of the time.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:07 pm

I had a front rim that had a problem with tyres blowing off... So much so that a tubeless tyre even blew off in the middle of a bunch in a championship race... Pretty scary moment.
Sometimes you get a faulty tyre as well... It isn't always a fitting problem.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby GasCyclist » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:37 pm

Wow I've always ran 110 -120 psi. Guess I might look into reducing it to 100-110. I like a nice solid tyre and feel on the road.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby warthog1 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:36 pm

I still do run 110 psi. It's fine.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:15 pm

My mate lost another one on my c50's this week. He'd just gone down Mt Cootha and was riding along the flat at about 40k. Somehow he managed to keep it together... and it was another brand new Ultremo ZX after the last one nearly killed him. :shock:

I just can't keep using these tyres....
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Wal42 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:38 pm

I went through 8 Ultremo R1's & never had an issue with any of them (running 130PSI, body weight 105kgs), I went away from them because I was destroying the tread constantly, they roll really well but I got no distance, one half reasonable brake lock up & the tyre was shot.

Maybe you just got a dud tyre, take it back or send it back, explain what's happening, hopefully they'll recognise there is an issue & replace.

I'm currently running Vredestein Fortezza Tri Comps, they seem to be lasting ok (145psi with them), got a Duo Comp TT tyre, super fast but once again no durability (cutting really badly).


Tyres are a bit of a personal thing, what works for one mightn't work for another, damn expensive exercise at times too.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby winstonw » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:04 pm

Comedian wrote:My mate lost another one on my c50's this week. He'd just gone down Mt Cootha and was riding along the flat at about 40k. Somehow he managed to keep it together... and it was another brand new Ultremo ZX after the last one nearly killed him. :shock:

I just can't keep using these tyres....


The mention of Coot-tha and flat smells suspiciously like rim heat puncture.
http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/blowouts.html
I'd be interested to know whether the rear or front tire blew that day, and the braking technique of the rider.
It's been suggested before that for steep descents, the front is better feathered and the rear held on consistently to help evenly distribute heat build up between both rims.

With blow offs and flats, I'd be interested in your tube/tire changing technique. After a spate of flats one day recently, I've resorted to shaking my tubes around in a bag of talc powder, and inflating overnight, before they qualify as a spare. I am also rubbing talc on the inside of the tires, to further reduce risk of pinching the tube.

Then you have to consider C50s (and C24s) have a very thin metal brake strip over carbon, which does not disperse heat as efficiently as a solid alloy rim.

A ZX is a 195g tire, and ime, is not sturdy enough for every day riding.
R1 and ZLX are even lighter, ergo less suitable for everyday riding.

GP4000s (205g) and Gatorskins (220) have proven much more reliable and durable amongst my mates for everyday road riding, and are cheaper than attack (190)/force (210).
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:46 pm

winstonw wrote:
Comedian wrote:My mate lost another one on my c50's this week. He'd just gone down Mt Cootha and was riding along the flat at about 40k. Somehow he managed to keep it together... and it was another brand new Ultremo ZX after the last one nearly killed him. :shock:

I just can't keep using these tyres....


The mention of Coot-tha and flat smells suspiciously like rim heat puncture.
http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/blowouts.html
I'd be interested to know whether the rear or front tire blew that day, and the braking technique of the rider.
It's been suggested before that for steep descents, the front is better feathered and the rear held on consistently to help evenly distribute heat build up between both rims.

With blow offs and flats, I'd be interested in your tube/tire changing technique. After a spate of flats one day recently, I've resorted to shaking my tubes around in a bag of talc powder, and inflating overnight, before they qualify as a spare. I am also rubbing talc on the inside of the tires, to further reduce risk of pinching the tube.

Then you have to consider C50s (and C24s) have a very thin metal brake strip over carbon, which does not disperse heat as efficiently as a solid alloy rim.

A ZX is a 195g tire, and ime, is not sturdy enough for every day riding.
R1 and ZLX are even lighter, ergo less suitable for everyday riding.

GP4000s (205g) and Gatorskins (220) have proven much more reliable and durable amongst my mates for everyday road riding, and are cheaper than attack (190)/force (210).

Well.. it was someone we both know who is far far more experienced on cootha than either of us put together. ;) I think he's down to 7:30 ish now. ;) It's just cootha...there is only a little brake right at the bottom.. and anyway, the problem is the tyre jumping off the rim. :shock:

It was the back too and was a brand new ZX with only maybe 100k. He's had it happen on the flat as well. And i've had it happen more than half a dozen times in my garage. I've had DD's blow off a few times too... and I think they are 230 and are very suitable as an everyday tyre. In fact ... I absolutely love a ZX on the front and a DD on the back. Apart from them blowing off randomly it's a great combo. :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:12 pm

I forgot to mention... while stripping the them off the rim... I lightly levered one off.. and got it a few centimetres. I put the levers down and the whole tyre and tube just fell off the rim in my hand. :o

I'm afraid I think their bead is just too big...
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby winstonw » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:56 pm

Comedian wrote:Well.. it was someone we both know who is far far more experienced on cootha than either of us put together. ;) I think he's down to 7:30 ish now. ;) It's just cootha...there is only a little brake right at the bottom.. and anyway, the problem is the tyre jumping off the rim. :shock:

It was the back too and was a brand new ZX with only maybe 100k. He's had it happen on the flat as well. And i've had it happen more than half a dozen times in my garage. I've had DD's blow off a few times too... and I think they are 230 and are very suitable as an everyday tyre. In fact ... I absolutely love a ZX on the front and a DD on the back. Apart from them blowing off randomly it's a great combo. :)


Hmmm....hard to imagine the brakes are only being applied a little at the bottom, on the backside of Coot-tha. But I've got the imagination of a descender with a strong survival instinct and poor descending skills. That sharp left where the skate boarder chick died, would put some serious lateral force through the tire, and possibly move it on the rim enough to pinch flat. I suppose it's possible the forces generated are well into elite rider level.

Also, the heat could overinflate the tube and force the tire off the rim, without puncturing.

Have you had it happen in your garage at a max of 120psi?
Have you pumped any other tire models/brands above 120?
I wouldn't be inclined to pump above 120 as I reckon it won't accommodate increased pressure due to rim heat when riding.

I am not familiar with the rim structure of the dura ace wheels; but my carbons do not have a lip that curls inwards around the edge of the rim, like my alloys.
I presume this lip could reduce the chance of a blow off.
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:21 pm

winstonw wrote:
Comedian wrote:Well.. it was someone we both know who is far far more experienced on cootha than either of us put together. ;) I think he's down to 7:30 ish now. ;) It's just cootha...there is only a little brake right at the bottom.. and anyway, the problem is the tyre jumping off the rim. :shock:

It was the back too and was a brand new ZX with only maybe 100k. He's had it happen on the flat as well. And i've had it happen more than half a dozen times in my garage. I've had DD's blow off a few times too... and I think they are 230 and are very suitable as an everyday tyre. In fact ... I absolutely love a ZX on the front and a DD on the back. Apart from them blowing off randomly it's a great combo. :)


Hmmm....hard to imagine the brakes are only being applied a little at the bottom, on the backside of Coot-tha. But I've got the imagination of a descender with a strong survival instinct and poor descending skills. That sharp left where the skate boarder chick died, would put some serious lateral force through the tire, and possibly move it on the rim enough to pinch flat. I suppose it's possible the forces generated are well into elite rider level.

Also, the heat could overinflate the tube and force the tire off the rim, without puncturing.

Have you had it happen in your garage at a max of 120psi?
Have you pumped any other tire models/brands above 120?
I wouldn't be inclined to pump above 120 as I reckon it won't accommodate increased pressure due to rim heat when riding.

I am not familiar with the rim structure of the dura ace wheels; but my carbons do not have a lip that curls inwards around the edge of the rim, like my alloys.
I presume this lip could reduce the chance of a blow off.

Sorry... to clarify it was after going down the front side and turning left that the tyre blew. There was only a light brake just before the left turn on the bypass road.

Once again for everyone... both my durace C24's and C50's have max pressure of 10 bar (145psi) written inside them. Both the Schwalbe Ultremo ZX and DD have max inflations of 10 bar (145psi).

I typically inflate to an indicated 120 on my floor pump which has been shown to be 115 on a pro digital guage. Both blowouts while in use occurred at 115psi.

I have pumped them up to the full 145 and rolled with them. However generally they blow off by 130. My recent method has been to fit them, pump them up to 130 and leave them over night to see if they blow off or not. Then drop them and use them at 120. Unfortunately sometimes they don't even make 110, sometimes you get them to 130 and then they blow after 30 seconds, five minutes, and hour. One blew off at 3am. Boy that surprised everyone. :o

Seriously, people here can go on and question my and my mates ability to fit tyres, pump them up, ride, brake, or whatever but I'm telling you none of us have any problems with any other tyres on any of our rims.

I'm moving on. I just found up my tyre levers (the schwalbes you could fit by hand) and fitted some conti Force and Attack. Pumped them straight up to their recommended max of 120psi and no BOOM. Beautiful. I'm moving on. :shock: :mrgreen:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby winstonw » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:37 pm

good to move on Comedian. I think you've unmasked an issue that isn't due to chance.

incidentally, I bought a Specialized tire from Mike Bikes on the Gold Coast several weekends ago, after a large hole developed in my original. Cost me $50. It was utter rubbish, and I had two flats within 30 minutes. I put it down to weak walls with a rough and uneven bead, increasing the P of pinching the tube.
I won't be buying Specialized tires again. If you want it, it's yours :)
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Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:32 pm

Comedian are you familiar with the definition of insanity?

Sounds like you've gone to lengths to work out whats causing the issue. I highly recommend you change to some different tyres although I've never had the issue you describe.

I did have some Ultremo casings fail a while ago, about 6 tyres actually. They were replaced under warranty and I never had another issue. If you've ever seen a snake thats eaten a rat or a cat thats what the tyre looked like - big bulges in it.

If you want a really tight tyre, get some tubeless tyres from Hutchinson and run them with tubes. They are TIGHT, the bead on them doesn't stretch.
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