city west path & othertaking

Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby CycleSnail » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:40 am

Pravda wrote:While I don't in anyway condone the way a lot of people ride along that section of path it is a bloody stupid place to have the shared path link up given the number of passengers who get off the train at City West. A long-term solution would be to move it completely or separate the peds and cyclists however I don't see that happening any time soon.


We have had talks with two lots of Liberal Transport Ministers as well as CoPerth nad MainRoadsWA to get separation of cyclists and pedestrians in this segment, suggesting it could legally be funded by the parking levy. (Some background can be found on the BTA website). No luck so far, but we will continue to move the various governement departments towards a safer solution. The current mini-roundabouts should result in some slowing down, and also should give peds a better environment - the roundabouts should have a pedestrian passage through them.
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by BNA » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:00 pm

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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby rolandp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:00 pm

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Wonder if the cross-walk will remain?

I did contact MainRoads earlier this week asking what was being installed, and where were the diversions going which were indicated in the installed signs. Only got general response back 'You enquiry is important to us ....'
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby CycleSnail » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:06 pm

I have not seen the final drawings, but I think there will be some way for pedestrians to cross the cycle highway safely. Levitation would one of the solutions, I guess a cross-walk another (not as safe, but more efficient)
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby orbeas » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:12 pm

8) Build a bridge over the cross walk? :idea:
Last edited by orbeas on Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby Baalzamon » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm

Looking at the pics, I reckon the cross walk will remain with islands forcing cyclists to slow down. But I wonder how effective they will be... Cyclists are quite nimble and a MTB may just decide to go across for a bit of fun as well
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby CycleSnail » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:21 pm

Looks like the crumbling shoulders of the path will be fixed as well. Pictures on the BTA Facebook page
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby rolandp » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:27 pm

Response back from MainRoads today:
I can confirm that work has started on site today, Monday 11th November. The work should take a maximum of 6 weeks.

The diversions are required due to certain construction operations at certain times of the day. The diversions will be along Delhi Street and Campbell Street if needed.

These works are designed to improve the safety of all users along the PSP with improved crossing points for pedestrians accessing the City West railway station.

If you have any further comments or questions please don’t hesitate to contact me.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby dougalh » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:08 pm

I go to school at perth mod, any of you commuters at around 8:30 have probably dealt with us, and coming out of the station walking up the path is hectic with cyclists zooming down the hill. now I know theres just going for a strava time! :roll:
The islands probably won't do much as from teh picture it doesn't look like it's much of a detour.

orbeas wrote:8) Build a bridge over the cross walk? :idea:

+1 to this!!!!
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby CycleSnail » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:08 am

Looks like theslow point is taking shape, but it seems that dyslexic cyclists will not benefit
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:09 pm

CycleSnail wrote:Looks like theslow point is taking shape, but it seems that dyslexic cyclists will not benefit


I wonder to if there is enough "bend" to actually do anything more than encourage taking on the chicane.

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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby Thoglette » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:56 pm

orbeas wrote:8) Build a bridge over the cross walk? :idea:


It works well at West Leederville
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:28 pm

Aushiker wrote:
CycleSnail wrote:Looks like theslow point is taking shape, but it seems that dyslexic cyclists will not benefit


I wonder to if there is enough "bend" to actually do anything more than encourage taking on the chicane.

Andrew

Perhaps, though at will certainly reduce doubel and triople passing at whatever speed. And that will at least affect some.

There is never a perfect answer though - how do you stop stupidity? How do you stop impatience? ahow do you stop selfishness. All are hard to do.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby eldavo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:11 pm

There are going to be some spectacular high sides at that island for anyone who takes it on and loses.
PTA CCTV of the crossings should be better popcorn footage than ever before.

There are no limits to stupidity especially with adrenalin red mist by those who aren't used to being stupid most of the time and can't really do it well. One in mind recently was uphill northbound prior to Hutton overpass, 5kph slower than normal on fat tyred MTB, but still in a decent climb pace and guy behind on roadie must have got his/my pace wrong locks up brakes into back of me/front of pedestrian walking downhill trying to split us at the moment we're side by side. Pedestrian said take it easy mate to the guy. I later realised why he was riding daft, because another bloke with the same jersey was up ahead he was trying to get back up to draft with. I saw them umbilical joined at Karrinyup Rd. later. Potential for stupidity seems to square for every alike jersey in the vicinity.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby orbeas » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:48 pm

Thoglette wrote:
orbeas wrote:8) Build a bridge over the cross walk? :idea:


It works well at West Leederville

+1 your making common sence, gov departments lack it
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby Thoglette » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:54 pm

eldavo wrote:There are no limits to stupidity


Nor to temptation
Image

(Thanks to the BTA)

I was thinking exactly the same thing last night but behaved myself.

500m earlier I had been sorely tempted take the "event ahead" sign blocking the PSP at City West and hurl it over the fence!

Oh, nor to optimism. I love the "cyclists dismount" signs.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby wagr1213 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:38 pm

Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.

This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.

This is just silly!

Oh well the entertainment should be good.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:57 pm

wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.

This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.

This is just silly!


I am not at all sure that you can make a statement like that without making at least an equally strong attack on cyclists.

Yes there are vacant dreamy peds. But there is no shortage of grossly poor riders in a hurry either. Indeed, if all riders would obey the signage and markings, drop their speed for a short time and resist the urge to pass others at this point these works would not be necessary.

A better solution could be an overpass. But, playing devil's advocate, a ped could ask why they should have to have that imposed on them while cyclists get a clear run.

There is never going to be a perfect solution because of our (cyclists and peds) shortcomings. I suspect that this solution will be quite effective but there will still be some accidents. Overall I expect both cyclists and peds to be somewhat better off.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:19 am

wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.

This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.

This is just silly!

Oh well the entertainment should be good.


What was that in the previous post about not being able to stop stupidity? Good example right here.

It's a pedestrian crossing. Formally marked with signs & zebra markings. Cyclists are required to give way to pedestrians using the crossing. Pedestrians leaving the station are perfectly entitled to use the crossing, walking 'in front of cyclists', given that cyclists are required to give way. There is no 'swerve and avoid' if you are travelling at the appropriate speed - just 'stop or slow and give way'.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:24 am

orbeas wrote:8) Build a bridge over the cross walk? :idea:


That's the obvious solution, however that $2m-$3m (more?) comes out of the cycling budget and comes at the expense of:

- Bassendean to Lord Street extension
- PSP through Guildford to Midland
- PSP deviation from Glendalough to Hutton St

and so on.

Really, I think it should come out of the black spot or safer roads funding streams rather than the WABN funding but obviously such hasn't been successful yet.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby wagr1213 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:33 pm

wellington_street wrote:
wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.

This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.

This is just silly!

Oh well the entertainment should be good.


What was that in the previous post about not being able to stop stupidity? Good example right here.

It's a pedestrian crossing. Formally marked with signs & zebra markings. Cyclists are required to give way to pedestrians using the crossing. Pedestrians leaving the station are perfectly entitled to use the crossing, walking 'in front of cyclists', given that cyclists are required to give way. There is no 'swerve and avoid' if you are travelling at the appropriate speed - just 'stop or slow and give way'.


The only stupidity here is your response - you missed the point! People will still do what they do now.

Nothing has Changed with these works, other than to worsen an already bad situation because as has been pointed out there are still the cycle idiots who will still 'swerve and avoid' the crossing peds and try to navigate this abomination at speed to the further detriment of others.
They should have opened up the space and removed the blind spots or as at West Leederville created a better environment.

I rarely use use this cycleway as it is a bit out of my ride areas - but as I regularly stop at City West and dispense the sheep into the path of the wolves, I get to see what some of these idiots do and so now the viewing will just get more entertaining.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:19 pm

Fair call, misinterpreted your post mate, I thought you were speaking from your own perspective/behaviour as a cyclist through there.

A police presence during the commuting peaks would definitely assist in reigning in some of these idiots.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby redned » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:55 pm

Maybe (he says optimistically) it will be more of a visual signal to cyclists that they need to do something apart from steam through. Maybe a marked pedestrian crossing isn't enough of a visual trigger for the unthinking cyclist. The lunatic cyclist might still steam through.
I don't think I have ever seen a driver give way to pedestrians on marked crossings on slip lanes. They are always focussed on the approaching traffic to check the light cycle to see if they can proceed. Signs and road marking are apparently not sufficient visual triggers for the unthinking driver.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby uglybob » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:02 pm

redned wrote:Maybe (he says optimistically) it will be more of a visual signal to cyclists that they need to do something apart from steam through. Maybe a marked pedestrian crossing isn't enough of a visual trigger for the unthinking cyclist. The lunatic cyclist might still steam through.
I don't think I have ever seen a driver give way to pedestrians on marked crossings on slip lanes. They are always focussed on the approaching traffic to check the light cycle to see if they can proceed. Signs and road marking are apparently not sufficient visual triggers for the unthinking driver.


unfortunately you'll always get people on bikes through there that no matter what you do, will always be dicks.

before the works were done, you could be stopped with a few other cyclists at the crossings, with peds having got off a train streaming over the paths, and people would still be forcing their way though. it couldn't be more obvious that they needed to stop, yet they'll ride down like they're the only people in the world :roll:
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:40 am

wagr1213 wrote:
wellington_street wrote:
wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.

This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.

This is just silly!

Oh well the entertainment should be good.


What was that in the previous post about not being able to stop stupidity? Good example right here.

It's a pedestrian crossing. Formally marked with signs & zebra markings. Cyclists are required to give way to pedestrians using the crossing. Pedestrians leaving the station are perfectly entitled to use the crossing, walking 'in front of cyclists', given that cyclists are required to give way. There is no 'swerve and avoid' if you are travelling at the appropriate speed - just 'stop or slow and give way'.


The only stupidity here is your response - you missed the point! People will still do what they do now.
...


Steady on - wellington's post was fine. He was jut reminding us of the oft-ignored obligations of some of the users.

After becoming aware of this trouble spot the very next time that I rode this section I reflected on how it difficult it would be for a cyclist to approach this point without being aware of the hazard coming up.
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Re: city west path & othertaking

Postby eldavo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:19 pm

I had another late start this morning without any traffic there, and rolling along at 20kph+ I didn't have to slow or deviate much. Speed bumps would probably work in some ways and cause more issues in others, be interesting to see if they show up, I wouldn't be bothered either way and look at it as a wheelie opportunity on a clear day =D
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