How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby Baldy » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:55 pm

winstonw wrote:Whereas, racing year after year in the same grade is proof of what exactly?


To me its proof they are enjoying themselves. Its proof they have reached a level of fitness they are able to maintain year after year. Due in most cases to choice, they decide how much time and effort they are willing to put into bike racing. Without these people clubs would struggle to exist and there would be less racing for those who like to plan every pedalstroke in advance.

I started racing in D grade a couple of years ago, there was almost a year gap between my first and 2nd races and most have been in the last 6 months or so. I'm an unashamed fair weather racer mostly, I just race when I feel like it. I have never won a race, got a couple of 2nds. I have just moved myself up when I think I can hang on, had my first race in B a few weeks ago.

If I can race the next 40 years[I am 35] in B and C grade I will be a happy man. Hell if I am still racing when I am 75 I won't give a rats what grade I am in! We have one bloke in our club who is 74 I think and he is a E grade stalwart.
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by BNA » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:56 pm

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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby winstonw » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:56 pm

thearthurdog wrote:I can't recall ever winning two the same way. Each and every situation warrants a different strategy. Multiple variables (in bike racing) creates a scenario where you need to do different things to be successful each time. If you use the same trick (regardless of strategy), I'm not sure that would work.


As I alluded earlier, it's about having a bag of 'ways' to respond to events as they unfold, or to make something happen.
Older riders new to racing have less years to develop race sense and craft, so it is sensible to make training more like racing.
Yes each race is different, but not infinitely different....nor is there an infinite no. of ways to respond to events in a race.
You cannot break with any confidence if you've never discovered what is required to break, and what you and your break mates are capable of.

So, essentially, I don't agree races are so variable, no amount of training can improve race craft or sense.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby winstonw » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:00 pm

Baldy wrote:If I can race the next 40 years[I am 35] in B and C grade I will be a happy man. Hell if I am still racing when I am 75 I won't give a rats what grade I am in! We have one bloke in our club who is 74 I think and he is a E grade stalwart.


When we were rolling around talking about making races 'fairer', one of the lads came up with the idea of putting a couple of riders up after every race or three, and sending a couple down. Seemed to have some merit for the little time I thought about it.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:26 am

winstonw wrote:So, essentially, I don't agree races are so variable, no amount of training can improve race craft or sense.


Strawman (again). You are arguing against something no-one has said.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby thearthurdog » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:13 am

winstonw wrote:So, essentially, I don't agree races are so variable, no amount of training can improve race craft or sense.


What is your level of experience to make a comment like the first half of this sentence? If you a talking about experience in SEQ criteriums then LOL.

FWIW, I do agree 'somewhat' with the second half of the sentence, but still believe you can learn a lot about yourself in training.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby twizzle » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 am

winstonw wrote:As I alluded earlier, it's about having a bag of 'ways' to respond to events as they unfold, or to make something happen.


I can see it now... everyone riding along in a bunch, someone yelling out "Six". Or is there a huddle at the start to work out the game plan for different circumstances and then hoping everyone remembers?
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby ZepinAtor » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:31 pm

twizzle wrote:
winstonw wrote:As I alluded earlier, it's about having a bag of 'ways' to respond to events as they unfold, or to make something happen.


I can see it now... everyone riding along in a bunch, someone yelling out "Six". Or is there a huddle at the start to work out the game plan for different circumstances and then hoping everyone remembers?


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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby winstonw » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:06 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
winstonw wrote:- The voices of experience are illiterate in regards to the specific cardiovascular, neuromotor, and special sense physiology of this cohort, and how that impacts their ability to develop racecraft.

I certainly don't consider myself illiterate in such matters and find the assertion offensive.


You can consider yourself whatever you want Alex. You don't earn a living bound by a profession's code of ethics.
Your first post in this thread revealed a lot about the character behind the shop front.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby twizzle » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:02 pm

Yo, admins - thread is now way off topic and resorting to trolling. Lock time as per forum rules?


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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:22 pm

winstonw wrote:You don't earn a living bound by a profession's code of ethics

Actually I do.

So cut out the ad hominem, it's rather tiresome.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby warthog1 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:02 am

winstonw wrote:
You can consider yourself whatever you want Alex. You don't earn a living bound by a profession's code of ethics.
Your first post in this thread revealed a lot about the character behind the shop front.


I would suggest, having read through much of your uninformed nonsense, that you are not in a position to casting aspersions about anybody's character.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby sogood » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:22 am

winstonw wrote:You can consider yourself whatever you want Alex. You don't earn a living bound by a profession's code of ethics.
Your first post in this thread revealed a lot about the character behind the shop front.

#Fail :roll:
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby mjd » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:09 am

To Winstonw I'm finding your attitude towards people rather offensive especially when you are not supplying any facts other than your own babble that has no real substance, no real data or no real world evidence.

Alex = Factual & evidence based knowledge from years of experience in a specific field. Alex is also held in high regard throughout the world especially in the field of power data for cycling. Real world coach from Professionals to C graders. A disclaimer here that Alex does coach me & I am heading towards 50yo & when I started I was in C grade & now ride A grade. It took me around 12 months but I was on personal goal for the first 4 months of this & Alex said at the time it was a lot of workload that would hinder performance. He was right but since then it has been upwards the whole time.

Winstonw = what exactly. C grader ? Any other qualifications you can inform me of ? I would be glad to hear from you.

winstonw wrote:This is the C grader Saturday ride if interested.
[url]<a href="http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=479912[/url"
We're going to do a 45kph revolving paceline for the first 80km's. :shock: :lol:
C grade paceline @45kph for 80km ? You should be at least NRS with these abilities.
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby Nobody » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:22 am

mjd wrote:C grade paceline @45kph for 80km ? You should be at least NRS with these abilities.
Maybe the "k" in "80km" was a typo. :wink:
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Re: How long can a C grader hold 45kph on a flat course?

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:37 pm

[mod]I've locked this topic as some of the posters are attacking each other, rather than debate the topic[/mod]
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