Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

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Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby Cycledelica » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:00 am

Hi everyone, I'm writing to warn anyone against purchasing a bike from XZY and to express my sincerest and most extreme displeasure at having been defrauded out of roughly $1000-1500 by XZY several years ago. I purchased a fixie for $2000 and I was told the frame was a brand new handmade custom italian build (hence the high price tag). I paid this high price because I thought I was going to get a frame thought would virtually last a lifetime and I could just upgrade and change components as time went by. It now appears that I was completely defrauded and sold some dodgy 2nd hand frame that was given a cheap spray job. Now that the paint has begun cracking and chipping (the paint job is so bad that I can chip it off with my fingernails), I can see the frame underneath was a different colour and is now rusting. I doubt I could sell this bike now for much more than $250

I don't think I've ever been ripped off as blatantly by anyone for anything I've ever bought in my entire life. You cannot sell something that is second hand and then tell the customer it is brand new. This is fraud and I will be writing to the dept of fair trading to inform them this is the sort of retail practice that goes on at XZY.
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by BNA » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:52 am

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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby ozdavo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:52 am

Have you talked the retailer/distributor? Also you were told it was a custom but it sounds like you bought it off a shop floor, so custom built for who?


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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:09 am

sounds more like a XZY
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby slidetaker » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:50 pm

How long do you have the bike for? where do you usually store it? Have you contact the shop regarding this issue?

If I am paying $2000 for a bike, I am pretty sure it will be from a reputable shop and I will go over it like a hawk before paying that amount of money. Usually, by then, I can spot a second hand bike with a cheap spray job...
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:25 pm

Pics????
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby uncle arthur » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:23 pm

I call troll....

Who gives a damn about being "fleeced" a number of years ago..... :roll:

If it was last week, and you posted pics, or details, or a video of you falling off the bike as it crumbled beneath you, then that might get our proper interest and attention.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby damhooligan » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:42 pm

uncle arthur wrote:I call troll....

Who gives a damn about being "fleeced" a number of years ago..... :roll:

If it was last week, and you posted pics, or details, or a video of you falling off the bike as it crumbled beneath you, then that might get our proper interest and attention.


Thats rough dude...
He only noticed it now.
That he bought it years ago is not relevant .

If this is true i support him warning us.
Selling second hand for new is no joke.
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby damhooligan » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:49 pm

slidetaker wrote: I can spot a second hand bike with a cheap spray job...


I doubt that.
An old bike with a fresh paint job can easily pass as new.
Cheap paint wil refer to durability .
That is not noticable straight away

It is possible to pass a second hand frame with cheap paint for new.
Especially if you are not expecting it.
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XZY

Postby Cycledelica » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:07 pm

uncle arthur wrote:I call troll....

Who gives a damn about being "fleeced" a number of years ago..... :roll:

If it was last week, and you posted pics, or details, or a video of you falling off the bike as it crumbled beneath you, then that might get our proper interest and attention.
Why am I trolling if I'm giving a warning to any sydneysiders who might be in the market for a fixie? Why must the bike fall apart completely?

Yes I feel like an idiot for not checking the bike more carefully but it wasn't "easy" to tell that the frame was not original at the time. That makes no difference to the fact that XZY sold me a second hand frame on the pretense that it was brand new. That is disgraceful service IMO and people should know about it.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:26 pm

Please read the Forum Rules about Naming and Shaming. We concentrate mainly on local business with this rule and it is because we often hear one side of the story and it is not necessarily factual.


To get this topic moving forward - what did the retailer say when you approached them?

Is it possible that rust has developed since purchasing? If it is a bubbling rust, water could have entered and started corroding which is not a problem that was necessarily there on purchase. Contibuting factors could be sea air or being left outdoors or in damp conditions.

Damhooligan will know more about the next one, though when a frame is striped and not painted immediately, also possible is that it was stored and developed light rust before being painted. Not forgetting that if you spot a different colour unerneath such as a grey or white, it could be a primer (undercoat).

It is possible that it wasn't painted well - though also doesn't immediately mean that it is an inferior frame. After 10 years it would not be reasonable that the retailer is liable to repaint. A repaint after ten years (or sooner) when the frame has been in use is reasonable.

The only thing is that if it wasn't a genuine italian made frame - but you should check the bottom brackets and look for any identifying factors stamped into the frame. If it was revealed that the frame was not genuine then it would be difficult to follow up, though still possible.

In my view, we are missing information to be able to say that for certain it was a raw deal - so suggest your own follow up and also follow up with the retailer. In the best case, you have a great frame that is good for a lifetime and need to react quickly so that there is no further corrosion.

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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby damhooligan » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:22 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Please read the Forum Rules about Naming and Shaming. We concentrate mainly on local business with this rule and it is because we often hear one side of the story and it is not necessarily factual.


To get this topic moving forward - what did the retailer say when you approached them?

Is it possible that rust has developed since purchasing? If it is a bubbling rust, water could have entered and started corroding which is not a problem that was necessarily there on purchase. Contibuting factors could be sea air or being left outdoors or in damp conditions.

Damhooligan will know more about the next one, though when a frame is striped and not painted immediately, also possible is that it was stored and developed light rust before being painted. Not forgetting that if you spot a different colour unerneath such as a grey or white, it could be a primer (undercoat).

It is possible that it wasn't painted well - though also doesn't immediately mean that it is an inferior frame. After 10 years it would not be reasonable that the retailer is liable to repaint. A repaint after ten years (or sooner) when the frame has been in use is reasonable.

The only thing is that if it wasn't a genuine italian made frame - but you should check the bottom brackets and look for any identifying factors stamped into the frame. If it was revealed that the frame was not genuine then it would be difficult to follow up, though still possible.

In my view, we are missing information to be able to say that for certain it was a raw deal - so suggest your own follow up and also follow up with the retailer. In the best case, you have a great frame that is good for a lifetime and need to react quickly so that there is no further corrosion.

Christopher


You do raise some valid points christopher.
There is indeed some missing info.
And a picture would say a lot of things.

If the frame was not painted straight away, then that is an epic fail on the manufacturer.
As this would cause corrosion on a big scale, and thats not what you should expect from a new frame.
And if thats the case with this frame, I would think lots of other frames wil have the same issue.
In the above scenario it is not unreasonable to ask for compensation, as it is a manufacturers default.
Comparable to a crack in the frame.
Its fair to assume your product works , within reason.
A crack in frame is not reasonable.
A frame poorly prepped before paint with rust as an result is not reasonable.

But this is not easy to determine, as one stone chip can be enough for corrosion to start.
And there are many other reasons why corrosion could be there.
especially on an older frame.

So OP, how did you come to this conclusion?
Did you asked an experienced painter for an inspection? (I would say, a local panelshop could provide more info on the paintwork.)
Or is it based on your assumptions?
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:21 am

Thanks for your input damhooligan. It is speculation now without knowing more.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby Cycledelica » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:46 am

AUbicycles wrote:Thanks for your input damhooligan. It is speculation now without knowing more.
I promise will upload some photos later this evening or tomorrow. Haven't got time today. I'm no expert on bicycle paint jobs so the feedback would be welcome :)
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby HLC » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:41 pm

Cycledelica wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Thanks for your input damhooligan. It is speculation now without knowing more.
I promise will upload some photos later this evening or tomorrow. Haven't got time today. I'm no expert on bicycle paint jobs so the feedback would be welcome :)


Instead of wasting time uploading pictures (which should have been at the start of the thread anyway) why dont you just take it back to the shop, with your receipt and speak to them.

Ranting on the internet is not getting the problem solved.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby Cycledelica » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:51 pm

HLC wrote:Instead of wasting time uploading pictures (which should have been at the start of the thread anyway) why dont you just take it back to the shop, with your receipt and speak to them.

Ranting on the internet is not getting the problem solved.
Like I said, all I'm trying to do is help other people by warning them against buying from a dodgy retailer. I'm not trying to solve the problem here. I'm giving a negative review but it seems that was a waste of time anyway now since the name of the retailer has been censored.

I hope nobody else gets fleeced the same way I did because BNA doesn't allow naming and shaming of such disgraceful business practice.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:08 pm

Doesn't allow naming and shaming of such 'ALLEGED' business practices. Your first port of call is always the place you bought it, have you even given them a chance to explain what the problem might be, and take some action to rectify it?
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:36 pm

Cycledelica wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Thanks for your input damhooligan. It is speculation now without knowing more.
I promise will upload some photos later this evening or tomorrow. Haven't got time today. I'm no expert on bicycle paint jobs so the feedback would be welcome :)


So we're still waiting for the alleged pics, and you have failed to answer the question of whether you have taken it up with xyz, or you are just having a one sided whinge.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:28 pm

Cycledelica wrote:I hope nobody else gets fleeced the same way I did because BNA doesn't allow naming and shaming of such disgraceful business practice.


Take note that as a public discussion forum, people frequently attempt to use this forum to discredit businesses and it is always a one-sided. Think about who has to deal with lawyers and being sued if a business thinks that BNA is defaming them. I am simply not prepared to vouch for people I don't know and accept their legal responsibility.

It is reasonable to take this up with the bike shop for a resolution. On this forum we are prepared to allow discussion which doesn't identify the business. For serious issues that are highlighted I may take this up with a business or retailer in the interest of the community.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby damhooligan » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:44 pm

Cycledelica wrote:Like I said, all I'm trying to do is help other people by warning them against buying from a dodgy retailer.

So far its not proven that they ARE dodgy.
All we know that that is your personal opnion.

Cycledelica wrote: I'm not trying to solve the problem here. I'm giving a negative review but it seems that was a waste of time anyway now since the name of the retailer has been censored.


Thats way more then a negative revieuw.
Calling a shop frauds and pretty much thieves is a very strong accusation.
And I support christophers decision to censore that.

If you can accept his decision too, we can give you information to help.
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby Cycledelica » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:33 am

damhooligan wrote:Thats way more then a negative revieuw.
Calling a shop frauds and pretty much thieves is a very strong accusation.
And I support christophers decision to censore that.

If you can accept his decision too, we can give you information to help.
Yes it is a strong accusation and I wouldn't make it if I didn't believe it to be true. Basically, I just came on here to warn people but instead the lot of you accused me of being a dodgy lying b@stard. Well thanks for the benefit of the doubt guys. I've been riding for 20yrs, I have 6 bikes, 3 of which are mountain bikes and have received far more punishment than this fixie, one of which is a steel frame and shows nowhere near the same level of corrosion and paint damage despite being 3 times older, nor does it reveal a different colour undercoat where the paint has been chipped, nor does it show any sign of bubbling or flaking as can been seen in the photos below. I have an alloy road bike that has done 1000s more kms than this fixie and yet it shows nowhere near the same level of outer coat wear and tear. This fixie has only ever been ridden for commuting and I take care not to throw it around or scratch it. The paint is flaking off by itself, it is not simply due to being chipped by stones etc. As I said earlier, I'm not expert in bike paint jobs, but when I compare this bike to my other steel rigid mtb, I can now tell that something isn't right which was not apparent when I first bought the bike. Take a look at the stem for example, the shiny silver coat just started flaking off by itself. To charge $2000 and put on such a cheap stem is disgraceful IMO. Now I am forced to go back to the shop and ask for some form of compensation. I will do this, but it still doesn't change the fact that they sold me something that was not "original" as has been engraved underneath the bottom bracket.


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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby RonK » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:44 am

Cycledelica wrote:it still doesn't change the fact that they sold me something that was not "original" as has been engraved underneath the bottom bracket.

I agree quality seems poor and you likely have a good case for compensation, however it's not clear that you bought this as a brand new bike, or as a customisation, which is well known as the speciality of the said company. Seems likely you are misinterpreting the meaning. The engraving is the giveaway that it is in fact a customisation - a brand new bike from an established manufacturer would not have it.

But even if it is one of their hand-built originals (read recycled track bike) it would not be unreasonable to expect a fair quality of finish.

Perhaps you were caught up by the hypebole this company generates.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby Cycledelica » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:04 am

RonK wrote:I agree quality seems poor and you likely have a good case for compensation, however it's not clear that you bought this as a brand new bike, or as a customisation, which is well known as the speciality of the said company. Seems likely you are misinterpreting the meaning. The engraving is the giveaway that it is in fact a customisation - a brand new bike from an established manufacturer would not have it.

But even if it is one of their hand-built originals (read recycled track bike) it would not be unreasonable to expect a fair quality of finish.

Perhaps you were caught up by the hypebole this company generates.
Well I'm telling you that when I purchased it, I was told that it was a brand new "hand built original" frame from a reputable Italian builder. Under no circumstances did they ever indicate that the bike was recycled. This is what I particularly object to in addition to the fact that I never received a certificate of the build (from the builder) to prove this point. I didn't ask for one because I trusted the company to be honest, but now I feel that they blatantly lied to me. If they have a reputation for this sort of thing and had I known it (from say, reading a thread like this somewhere on the internet) then I might have been better informed at the time of purchase.

And yes, perhaps I did get caught up by the hyperbole from the company at the time because they had some really good looking bikes for sale, but I hope others find this thread useful and do not make the same mistake that I did. I'm not pulling anyone's leg here.... I am not a market competitor and I have no reason to fabricate a story. If anyone wants to doubt my honesty why don't you do me the courtesy of sending me a PM about it instead of making false accusations about me.... the very thing you are accusing me of doing in the first place.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby slidetaker » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:16 pm

The photos do show the red paint flaking off where the undercoat was subjected to some degree of oxdiation.

I have no knowledge of what the company claims to be a "hand-built orginals / recycled track bike". But if you were told that it was a brand new "hand built original" frame from a reputable Italian builder while it was actually a recycled. This would be a fraud.

Not sure what happened to the threadless stem. It seems to have a chrome plated surface but suffering from some really bad deterioration. May try some Brasso polish and see what happen.

I am surprised it is setup with threadless and raiser. Personally, I think it is a sin not to run steep angled quill stem with track bar on a classic italian track bike. :lol:

Will watch this space for update after your confrontation to the shop. All the best.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:18 pm

Image

I'm more horrified by the state of your drivetrain. for some one who claims to have taken care of this bike , that is a festy mess.

But yeah it certainly looks like it was blue once upon a time.
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Re: Never.Ever.Buy a fixie from XYZ

Postby damhooligan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:58 pm

As for accusations.
You may believe that,but your opnion alone is just a opnion.
This can be an isolated eventalso you ignored advice to contact shop.
They can have explanation and can offer help to fix it.
This has to be considered before making these accusations .

The above is how it is now.
This is not personal.
But you take it personal and blame us for calling you a lying ......
Nobody said that. We just share our opnion wich is not the same as yours.
Nobody called you anything.

Paint even badly painted one does not just fall off.
It stil needs a trigger.
Like stone chips or other...
Bad paint wil chip easier an bigger but stil needs a trigger.

As for your bike. It looks badly chipped wich could indicate a paint application problem.
I said could. As i can not confirm this from pictures.
I also can not see what the blue underneath is. It stil can be primer.
But again i cant see it from a picture.
I would advice go to a local panel shop.
Ask a painter to have a look and ask his opinion.
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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