Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:11 am

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by BNA » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:17 am

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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby BarryTas » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:17 am

interesting, as i've heard that the vets from the north may now race in the south

it would be nice for the whole state to operate as open and vets for each race
when do we stop for coffee???

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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby skull » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:22 am

Personally I think if they want to align with CA then they should open MM1 age group to their club (30 to 35). I think it is wrong making 35 the min age for the club when CA masters starts at 30.

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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:27 pm

skull wrote:Personally I think if they want to align with CA then they should open MM1 age group to their club (30 to 35). I think it is wrong making 35 the min age for the club when CA masters starts at 30.

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If you follow that logic, they should also embrace Elite Grade. Then they should adopt the various "junior" grades.

Why shouldn't a group decide who they want to cater for?
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby skull » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:09 pm

They want to be an affiliated CA masters club.

Masters starts at 30.

If they want to be an open club then yes they shall need to include elite and juniors. But they aren't so don't need to.

If they want to keep AVCC minimum ages then stay a vets club.

Which brings me to my next point. If older riders get upset about masters being younger and thus races getting harder/faster. Then maybe they should think about dropping a grade, they will still be racing the same people and won't have to worry about the new blood.

A bit silly restricting to stay in vets a grade when they would be a CA masters b grade elsewhere.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:46 pm

skull wrote:They want to be an affiliated CA masters club.



There is no such thing as a "CA masters club".
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:48 pm

and there is no such thing as an "open club".
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby skull » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:53 pm

There is such a thing as masters grades in CA

It starts at 30

There are also a huge number of masters only clubs, just like there are clubs that do not cater for masters grades. You know what I mean so stop being pedantic.

There is also elite (open) grade, which a master may enter if they have paid for an elite licence.

Want to be a masters club (such as southern tas) and affiliated with CA provide the regulated MASTERS grades.

Want to only supply grades aligned with avcc then be a avcc aligned club.

The reason I never raced aged 30 to 35 was due to southern tas starting at 35 back then. The wheelers only had small numbers and they were all fast praties boys, so I wasn't going to pay to race by myself. There was one race I did where they had packed up and left before I finished.

The biggest thing that annoyed ne, is when I turned 35 they introduced MM1 to the club

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Last edited by skull on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:09 pm

skull wrote:There is such a thing as masters grades in CA

It starts at 30

There are also a huge number of masters only clubs. So stop being pedantic.

There is also elite (open) grade, which a master may enter if they have paid for an elite licence.

Want to be a masters club (such as southern tas) and affiliated with CA provide the regulated MASTERS grades.

Want to only supply grades aligned with avcc then be a avcc aligned club.

The reason I never raced aged 30 to 35 was due to southern tas starting at 35 back then. The wheelers only had small numbers and they were all fast praties boys, so I wasn't going to pay to race by myself. There was one race I did where they had packed up and left before I finished.

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I am not being pedantic, just pointing out some facts.
You correctly point out that there are masters grades in Cycling Australia, however there are no provisions for "Masters" clubs, Open, Elite, Junior, or any other "type" of club. A cycling club affiliated with Cycling Australia, is just that; "a Cycling club affiliated with Cycling Australia". Each such club can decide on the grades they wish to cater for, and their club constitution can nominate membership provisions that limit membership to certain ages if they wish.
This wont be the first CA club to restrict membership to M2 and above.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby skull » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:14 pm

Which takes me back to my first post. If they want to be affiliated to CA then provide m1

What is so scary about the 30 to 35 age group. They are a masters grade but clubs that are masters only don't want them.

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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:30 pm

skull wrote:Which takes me back to my first post. If they want to be affiliated to CA then provide m1

What is so scary about the 30 to 35 age group. They are a masters grade but clubs that are masters only don't want them.

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:D :D :D :D Thanks for not using that "pedantic" word again skull. Using language like that is a form of "Elder bashing" as it causes confusion. I note that your new neighbours, Tony, and Julia, are anti "elder bashing".

There is nothing wrong with the 30-35 age group, so long as they play with children of their own age.

Please dont "unfriend " me on facebook skull :( :(

There is another aspect to this, so far not addressed in this thread. There is a prize on offer to the first poster who opens it up.

Clue:- elephant
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby Doc Savage » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:41 pm

master6 wrote:
There is another aspect to this, so far not addressed in this thread. There is a prize on offer to the first poster who opens it up.

Clue:- elephant


Would the elephant-in-the-room be that the last time this topic was discussed, you scuttled attempts at constructive club dialogue by creating multiple usernames, aimlessly criticised club volunteers and then offered a weak self-aggrandizing apology?

I.e:http://www.dirtdevilsmtb.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=583&highlight=Fourth&pid=2331#post_2331

and

http://www.dirtdevilsmtb.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=589&highlight=Apology&pid=2334#post_2334

Because that is honestly the first thing that I thought of.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby skull » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:20 pm

master6 wrote:
Please dont "unfriend " me on facebook skull :( :(


No worries there master6, I am just providing my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own including you (only just).

I concur on the other stuff too.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby fixedlegs2012 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:27 pm

I can see both sides of the arguments however NV going to CA has its benefits. The fact they will still have only 35+ well....every club can write its own charter.

Now the NV races have a different atmosphere so those of the CT or STCC races and well it's good. I like the atmosphere of the NV races not to mention they have different races to CT races. However..if NV does join CT then what will happen with my NV license.......and next year at the AVCC Nats exactly what club would I be representing?

However unless we goto the NV AGM then we dont have a say.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby BarryTas » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:57 am

words words words


why cant we all (as in all the clubs) just be open to everyone (as long as they have a licence) as we dont have the population base to restrict age groups.
And then in the results they can also place the riders in ther age categories
when do we stop for coffee???

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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby skull » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:26 am

Totes agree on different atmosphere at vets.

It is a more relaxed and all inclusive sort of feel with the vets here in Canberra. Where as the CA club is all serious business.

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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby BenevolantDictatorD » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:39 am

I usually try to keep out of this conversation - but -

In all the active sports that I have been involved in over the years - perhaps with the exception of basketball, there has always been a vets style competition - for whatever reason. That suggests there is some basic fundamental on why a vets cycling club is formed. Once you use that thought process as a point of reference the concept of opening up the vets club to "youngsters" creates a tension amongst those who are seeking the vets experience. Tinker with it too much and you simply lose members and/or have significant turnover of numbers as has been the case in the south.

It is easy to over generalise - so I will - but it always appears to me that the Vets concept across active sports, is one where the expectation of excessive training time disappears. Lots of vets train excessively but generally the concept for most is to turn up with little training and enjoy a ride with like-minded friends. Pop a couple of youngsters into each grade and it turns a weekend ride into a puff-fest.

There are, and always have been, vets who race with the "youngsters" and that suits their needs and good on them. The down side of having a vets club in the south, whether as part of CA or AVCC, is that it is usualy the "oldies" that have the time to do the organising and that has meant a lack of assistance for the brave few who continue to keep the Wheelers going.

For mine - I see no advantage one way or the other as to who the northern vets are affiliated with - as long as they retain their intent. AVCC affiliation has always been cheaper as that is the reason why they were formed in the first place. If you want to ride with the youngsters then CA affiliation is cheaper. I suppose it all depends of who you talk to and who is putting forward the change proposal.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby jcjordan » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:08 pm

Based on the results of a number of Victorian AVEC clubs that went to CA they will regret tgevbackv decision. CA will put so many road blocks in the way of there calendar, force them to offer prize money for every race, /force the purchase of substandard timing equipment, not allow them to run masters only races and a huge amount of administration on the club.

After 2 year most of the clubs that went over come back due all theses problems.

CA tries to put a lot of pressure on AVCC clubs for a number of reasons but primarily it's to get the older members to do the organising while the young ones get to race.

This discussion came up a couple of years ago here in the ACT and it was shut down fir this very reason.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:12 am

Motion
That the constitution of the Northern Vets Cycling Club Inc. be amended
as per the document attached hereto and entitled, “Proposed Changes
to the Constitution of the Northern Vets Cycling Club Inc.”.



The motion was carried.
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:18 pm

fixedlegs2012 wrote:Now the NV races have a different atmosphere so those of the CT or STCC races and well it's good. I like the atmosphere of the NV races


Good coffee Rob?
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby fixedlegs2012 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:39 am

I haven't raced a Northern Vets race this year yet maybe in the second half my calendar is fairly full before June. Salvete have great coffee and breakfast though on a Saturday morning after a ride
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Re: Possible changes for the Northern Vets?

Postby master6 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:44 am

fixedlegs2012 wrote:I haven't raced a Northern Vets race this year yet maybe in the second half my calendar is fairly full before June. Salvete have great coffee and breakfast though on a Saturday morning after a ride


Salvete? Where do they live?
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