I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby Leiothrix » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:20 pm

marinmomma wrote:I feel for you Fiona, he took advantage of you being a single female cyclist riding by yourself..


Not so sure of that -- unless a female goes over-the-top with pink clothes it's generally pretty tough to tell the gender of a cyclist. Well, assuming they're dressed in lycra anyway -- if it's just a singlet & shorts on the other hand :oops:

Hunched over on a bike there isn't really much to see, especially from behind. The only queue maybe long hair, but that doesn't mean anything either.
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by BNA » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:29 pm

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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby Crittski » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:29 pm

I think you are over reacting about your overreaction... perhaps this link will provide some perspective??

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-25/c ... ad/4391072
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby Nobody » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:04 am

Hi Fiona,

I agree with "il padrone" (Pete) that you should just treat vehicles like boxes on the road and if there is an incident, just get the details and report it. I don't ever bother with "conversations" about it. Not worth the grief or risk of further incidents. You know now how it likely ends.

fionahills wrote:He said the road was no place to exercise
Anyone who argues this should never get in a car to go on holidays, or go somewhere to get exercise. They are getting in the way of working people to do recreation or exercise IMO.

fionahills wrote:...anyway to wrap up a perfect afternoon, another guy went through a give way sign and didn't even see me and as I turned into my suburb a lady pulled out on top of me and I had to skid to a stop. I am a careful rider, I have flashy lights, I try and stay left
If you skidded to a stop, you really need to practice emergency braking more as you shouldn't skid in an emergency stop. It should be (where the road is reasonable) all front wheel braking.

Do you mean flashing lights? If so, consider geting brighter ones.

Trying to stay left at intersections will also get you overlooked. If possible, try to get into the right hand car wheel position just for the intersections (I would say the middle, but there is often a lot of oil there).
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby fionahills » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:01 am

Another quick update - hopefully last one on this - I will now get over myself - unless I get charged as the police told me I might...... :oops:

Sent an email to the bus company - I apologised for my actions and hope it seems as sincere as it was, told them I had reported myself to the police and explained the incident from my perspective.

Told the bus company I was not lodging a complaint against the driver given my actions but did ask them to remind all their drivers that cyclists have a right to be on the road. Hopefully it will be a positive outcome and not some long drawn out he did, she did......he said she said.....

RE Nobody's comment - you are right I do have to practice for emergency situations - as a new rider (only three months really) am still coming to grips to how the bike and I react in different circumstances -

my husband has ordered new flashing lights for all of us -so that is covered now :)

I agree that I should be a bit more assertive in my road position, but this is what I did on the roundabout and look how that ended up...... its a constant battle to figure out how to stay out of the way of trouble and making sure you give yourself the best possible chance of being seen, I have a lot to learn.

I have learnt that I will never ever again engage with anyone on the road......I will if necessary take details and report later.
It was stupid, I have learnt a lesson and am sorry.

On a brighter note I did ride by myself this morning -stuck to bike lanes -very pleasant -bit nervous but ok

thanks for all the comments and support - Fiona
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby jules21 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:38 am

i don't blame you at all Fiona. society really has gone mad when someone can use a 20t bus to threaten your life, but a simple slap on the arm may constitute assault. i wouldn't apologise for a minute.

myself, i'm 195-odd cm tall and very placid, but on the bike there are occasions when i have been almost ready to get medieval on some motorists, to the point where i worry about the potential to be convicted and lose my job, etc. i use a camera now and convince myself that the footage will tell a much better story if i behave like the adult and let the motorists make fools of themselves.

in fact, i'd thank you for taking the matter up with the driver. the more we stick up for ourselves in response to unprovoked aggression, the more likely motorists are to realise such aggression is unacceptable. a major factor is this type of aggression is the false assumption by motorists that they can display such aggression with impunity - we have every right to correct them on that.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby gorilla monsoon » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:55 am

Just my two bobs' worth: it would appear on face value the driver instigated the assault by (a) blowing the horn and (b) driving in a dangerous manner. Fiona's slap was a defensive move rather than an attacking one in the overall scheme of things.

Fiona, for future reference, if you ride with a reasonably modern mobile phone in your saddle bag or jersey pocket, remember that it will probably take pictures or even shoot video and probably with sound. If you haven't got one then upgrade to one next time your mobile phone plan comes up for renewal.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby human909 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:57 am

Sure you technically might have committed minor assault. However the bus driver quite clearly threatened you with a deadly weapon. It seems to me the police seem to not be taking things seriously. The first instance could considered a driving "accident" the second not at all.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby AndyTheMan » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:43 pm

Fiona,

I can completely understand why you did what you did.

I think a huge part of this problem is the the majority of police stations/commands, Council's, government agencies and companies that do not take abuse/danger to cyclists seriously.

(I must preface this by saying that I have recently had excellent help from my local cop shop after being targeted by a bogan).

Anyway, I see a huge part of the problem is that cyclists in MANY MANY MANY areas/locations have nowhere to turn to.

Get run off the road, hit by a bottle, abused, threatened etc and what do you have?? A Council that probably doesn't care, media who are bogan close personal friends who can hardily spell and just cut/paste most of their 'articles' from google and police who may or may not turn up/take any action (even with video evidence - there hare hundreds of videos on here that simply get ignored.

In my view, to change this, cyclists need to step up as a GROUP.

Look at the power that the shooters and fishers party has in NSW - and they are such a small group of people, an absolute minority in the state - but they are well organised and fight as a collective.

Cyclists need to do that.

20,000 people commute each day in Sydney (around 1% of commutes), 20,000 turn up to Spring Cycle, 10,000 every year to the Gong Ride, 4000 to Loop the Lake, more bicycles were sold than cars each year for the past 5 years .... yet the voice of cycling is so quiet its almost

How can we get 30,000 or 40,000 people to events each year, yet we can't get 10,000 signatures on simple petitions to improve road safety.

People need to look more strategically at the big picture...

Cyclists need to be more active, they need to join their local BUG, go on the organised rides, write letters to the newspaper, lobby their councillors/politicians. Even just mention it to your workmates....

And most importantly EVERY CYCLIST NEEDS TO REPORT DANGEROUS DRIVER BEHAVIOUR to police and to employers (especially in the case of buses etc). Also reporting dangerous roads/infrastructure to Council's and commenting on government strategies etc etc.

Seriously. Do it in writing, give them the details, rego numbers, witnesses etc. Video's if you have them.

The more that cyclist do, the more action there will be in the long term.

Its easy for authorities/council's/police etc to ignore stuff that they don't know about - but if they are getting letters and videos and complaints over and over, they are almost forced to act....
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:45 pm

Fiona I think its a pretty natural reaction that when you have a near death experience with a bus, that you may react in ways you wouldn't normally - your blood is pumping, your brain has less oxygen cos your legs are using it all, and then you get a rush of adrenaline from the bus. Don't be so hard on yourself.

For next time, have a rear facing camera, ride off, and just report his a** to the police, that's what I do now and I feel much better afterwards :) Then, once he loses his license if he keeps that crap up, he won't bother anybody for a while. The more cyclists that use cameras and report this crap, the less it will start to happen as motorists will wonder about each and every cyclist they pass if they are being filmed or not.

Ebay 808 #11 or #18 cameras are around $36 and do the job just fine.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby fionahills » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:22 pm

Thanks re advice on the camera - when I first joined the forum I thought people on bikes with cameras were to be frank 'just a little paranoid' - I understand why so many use them now. My husband actually suggested I get one and has started to look for one to buy... I will send him the link..

But I seriously hate that we (cyclists) even have to consider using one - I also hate that I have to wear a little bracelet with ID details in case I don't get home safely. I hate that I wear a helmet and gloves more to protect myself from nongs in cars than my own actions. I hate that I have to remember to take my phone now so I can take a photo of a rego plate. I really hate the flashing lights front and back given that I will never ever ride in the dark. I hate that I can't wear my favorite jersey (bought in Italy before I had even ridden my bike) cos its black and might let someone say they could not see me... I hate that I have to tell someone where I am going, how long I will be gone and make sure i let them know if I ride longer than usual cos otherwise they worry I have been Hit. I am sure there are other things I hate but can't think of anymore at the moment. Yes I know I HATE that I am now scared to ride on the road and that my belly is full of butterflys just thinking about going out again this afternoon.

I am more than happy to take responsibility for my own safety - but to be so aware of the dangers of going for a bike ride -Seriously its ALMOST enough to gve it away.

I am a member of BQ - let me know if there is anything else I should do to be a responsible member of the cycling community- except hitting more bus drivers - that is not cool........

Thanks guys Fiona
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby il padrone » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:16 pm

Don't beat yourself over the head about this incident Fiona.... and above all don't go riding in fear.

I don't use a camera on my bike. I don't have an ID bracelet. I wear a helmet, but really only because it's the law. I carry a mobile phone (but never use it when riding). I use lights in daylight - but solid dynamo ones, and only because they work at showing me up to drivers. I often commute in dark or grey clothing (my lights show me up well). I don't stress about telling someone where I'm riding. And I am happy to ride on the road and claim my rightful space.

Take it in small steps but try to get away from the 'security blankets'. Road cycling is not an intrinsically dangerous pursuit. You will get over these short-term fears in time.




Oh, and don't forget that mirror :wink:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:53 pm

You confidence should come back to you in time fiona, i've had a few nasty crashes that had me a little nervous afterwards but time heals most wounds. Riding the new crit track or gyndier drive could be a good way to get the miles in without any worry until the shock has worn off. It's worth noting that even with regularly riding through the middle of maroochydore i so far haven't had a crash involving a car, every one has been all my fault (i'm not sure if that's a good thing :oops: ), It really was just bad luck that you happened to strike one agressive idiot at the wrong place and time.

As a fellow cyclist THANK YOU for emailing the bus company, you can be sure they will let the drivers know about it, and that is one small step towards making the road safer. Unless the guy is well and truly has some roos loose in the top paddock he won't put his hand up to say "Yea but she started it" or something like that, he will just keep his mouth shut and while it probably won't change his feelings towards cyclists he MAY be less likely to do something like that in future.

As an example i was riding through marcoola a few weeks ago, centre of the lane due to roadworks gravel, doing 41 in the 40 zone just to be absolutely sure i couldn't be perceived as an obstacle. Suddenly a ute appeared behind me beeping his horn, i turned and shrugged, mouthing "40" and held up 4 fingers, the rock ape behind the wheel pointed to the side of the road and mouthed something, continued with his agressive behaviour until the road opened up a bit and he took off. I forgot to get the rego but contacted the company on the side anyway just to let them know and yesterday received a very nice phone call thanking me for my email, saying that obviously without rego they couldn't do anything about the individual driver but have had a meeting with all employees to remind them of their responsibilities when driving company vehicles.

Every little bit counts!
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby The 2nd Womble » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:00 pm

It was a BCC bus Fiona? The boss at BCC buses has told a colleague recently that all cyclists are effectively scum and have no place on our roads. I am seeking similar first hand comments from the chap in question shortly before proceeding further with The Lord Mayors office.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:12 pm

fionahills wrote:Sent an email to the bus company...


For. The. Win!!! 8)

Goodonyer Fiona, great news. :D

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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby RonK » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:16 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:It was a BCC bus Fiona? The boss at BCC buses has told a colleague recently that all cyclists are effectively scum and have no place on our roads. I am seeking similar first hand comments from the chap in question shortly before proceeding further with The Lord Mayors office.

The union rep however is a cyclist and is giving drivers the right message.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby jules21 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:23 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:It was a BCC bus Fiona? The boss at BCC buses has told a colleague recently that all cyclists are effectively scum and have no place on our roads. I am seeking similar first hand comments from the chap in question shortly before proceeding further with The Lord Mayors office.

if you can prove that, it is actually a breach of OH&S law. while such breaches occur every second of the day, it's more serious when it's the boss. if you can substantiate it, you should consider reporting that to Worksafe.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby Postieboy » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:49 pm

As many have said Fiona dont beat yourself up about it. My very first post on this forum http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=32256 was about a situation where I was run off the road and I ended up catching the driver and banging on his window. Not something I would encourage anyone to do and I am still surprised I did it. It is amazing how common sense and reason can fly out the window when the adrenaline kicks in after such a scary incident.

Anyway it is great to hear that you are back on the bike, and that you have informed his employer. Everynow and then you do get a win against the bogans!

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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby brett.hooker » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:22 pm

Fiona,

Definitely get a side mirror. I have always used one and it helps a lot to know what is coming. The place that has almost 100 bikes has quite a few to choose from.

I am amazed that the local boys said what you did was assault... Context and severity tests need to be applied here. Provocation test works for you in this case.

Chalk it up to a bad day, and kudos for getting back on the road... If we didn't adventure out because of risks, we wouldn't do anything at all...
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby fionahills » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:34 pm

Hi again

I am in a really good place again - thank you all. I did not ride this afternoon - bit too nervy and came up with lots of great excuses..so went for a walk instead..During the walk, I decided (after much good counsel -thanks BNAers) that the incident was totally out of character and I have apologised -therefore I have decided that I am OK and will move on. Can't undo it.

Womble - It was not a BCC bus - this was a sunshine coast local bus service - I didn't get the rego or bus no -and really don't think I could even id the driver now - funny what the body and mind can do in stress situations.

Am glad that you all approve of sending the email - as with all my 'conversations' it was very long - will probably take them a week to read it.... :)

A good friend (a solicitor) is appalled that I admitted liability both to the police and to the bus company.....especially seeing there was no way for them to ID me - but I think it was the best option for peace of mind - at least after 'losing it', I did, according to my code - do the right thing.

New lights for the bike arrived this evening - apparently very bright and should provide good daytime visability- hubby very quick off the mark - bless.....

will look at getting a mirror - but a little worried that I might focus too much on behind and not enough on what's in front - as a newbie I still have to concentrate on bike handling/gearing etc - and am constantly scanning the road for 'scary things' - sticks, glass, cars, peds, lumps bumps and holes -

Am determined to keep riding - and as suggested do lots(?) of Gyndier hill repeats - urghhhh.... while I get my confidence back.

I'll give the crit track another go - it is really quite tough (for me) so will go there and try to improve my speed and bike handling- get the kids to scream stop at various intervals.

my husband is home on the 4th and I'll get him to ride with me. He can sit on my wheel for a while and mind me.....

My girls have been great but not fair to expect them to babysit Mum - plus I want to learn to get faster and fitter and that takes miles in the legs....so no more sooking.

I am thinking about going to talk to some people about getting some kind of 'share the road' event here on the sunny coast.....while I have not been riding long I have participated in a few events and a couple of club rides - they are always well attended and I see stacks of cyclists - both 'us' knicks and clipins types and people of all ages, shapes and sizes just enjoying themselves. (not that we don't enjoy ourselves.... :D - it just seems that we pee more people off....must be the lycra or maybe the drop bars...)

anyway just to say thanks to you all and if I hear from the Bus company I'll let you know - if the worst happens and the guy wants me charged then I'll get the girls to post my bond quickly... and perhaps flee to a country without extradition and great cycling....-Fiona
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby The 2nd Womble » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:58 pm

If you insist on another fun ride, call the AGF. The Sunshine Coast is their turf and they have a good relationship with the council. It will do nothing to raise awareness amongst the driving fraternity mind you. They never do.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby fionahills » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:14 pm

Sorry to be thick - but what is AGF?

Fair enough call on the ride/event idea - guess you have seen the feel good things happening for a long time and the problems still exist - I probably just like the feeling of riding in a large group as all my experiences have been positive - even people on the side of the road watching the B2GC go past offering water etc


Culture does change over time though - its never static so how do we contribute to positive change? - sorry thinking aloud
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby damhooligan » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:58 pm

fionahills wrote:Sorry to be thick - but what is AGF?


Amy Gillete Foundation

http://www.amygillett.org.au/
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:59 pm

Amy Gillett Foundation, they aren't THAT widely known yet so it's reasonable not to have heard of it.

And while rides like you have described might not do a lot to raise awareness, i would definitely have to disagree with the assertion that they do NOTHING. Like i said, every little bit counts.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby fionahills » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:21 pm

Thanks - I have heard of the amy gillet foundation and its background- but the acronym had me stumped - I even like them on facebook :)

I have a background in change management so not in my nature to accept that nothing can change :D - its a matter of strategy, time and tactics - this is a great forum for collecting & collating all sorts of ideas... you never know the answer might be in the next post.

I don't have the answer except that we have to get rid of them and us - we need to identify what it is that makes some people react so viciously to someone on a bicycle....I know I am preaching to the already 'enlightened' and most of us share the road and respect all users - hope so anyway.....its the people who don't have experience with cyclists that are difficult to reach- soon as someone you care for jumps on a bike and rides on the road your whole perspective as a driver changes.

I know I am so much more aware now as a driver - I was always cautious of cyclist cos of hubby but even more alert now because I personally know of the challenges you face on a bike.

anyway might drop AGF an email and see if they have anything planned and if I can help in anyway.
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Re: I have bought Cyclists into Disrepute - Sorry

Postby il padrone » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:56 pm

fionahills wrote:I don't have the answer except that we have to get rid of them and us - we need to identify what it is that makes some people react so viciously to someone on a bicycle....


This.
fionahills wrote:.....its the people who don't have experience with cyclists that are difficult to reach- soon as someone you care for jumps on a bike and rides on the road your whole perspective as a driver changes.

The clear answer.

Experiences of people who have ridden in Europe - especially the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark - highlights this as a key factor behind Australians' arrogance and aggression in their motor cars. Friends, colleagues and family on bikes makes people give a damn.
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