Catrike Villager or maybe a Catrike Expedition or ...

[Aushiker]

Downhill's thread about a entry level trike followed by just4tehhalibut heads-up about the following Catrike Villager has got me thinking ....

Whilst my medium term intention (sometime in the second half of 2013) is to purchase a Sinner Mango Sport RE, in the short term I wouldn't mind trying out recumbent riding (trike) and by chance this Catrike Villager has linked to by just4tehhalibut is up for sale. The asking price is AU$2,000.

The riding that I would do with a trike is a daily commuting which is 42 km each way (a mix of shared use path and city roads), Audax riding (200 km + / 125 m) rides but not in mountains - we only have hills here) and maybe some on-road touring ( I will still have my Surly Long Haul Trucker anyway for the short to medium term unless I use a trike for touring).

The commuter riding involves riding the full 42 km home in a serious headwind (Fremantle Doctor - gusts around 50 km/h are normal which is about 27 knots) which I cop directly off the ocean so no buffering.

Based on feedback elsewhere the general censuses seems to be that I wouldn't be any faster on the Villager and possibly slower. Does this sound about right?

Another option has come up well maybe a couple going by my exploring the FlyingFurniture website. The top of the list is a Catrike Expedition which Ian has one (?) on special for $2,210. This particular model has bar end shifters and few other accessories included by the looks.



Ohter possibilites are a:

(1) Performer JC20 or JC70 but these seem to be not that great ... Baalzamon experience of one was not to good.
(2) ICE Adventurer but a base model not the one Baalzamon sold
(3) ICE Sprint base model

Maybe other possibilities? Honestly I really would like to keep the price as close to $2,000 or lower if possible so the ICE Adventurer and Sprint are really pushing my limits unless I sell say my Look 555 first.

Oh are their other dealers with good websites here in Australia? I assume buying overseas is not a realistic option at this level in the trike world.

Thanks in advance
Andrew

[Aushiker]

Found a Catrike Road demo going for $2,500 at Recumbent and Specialised Cycling. This one includes a chain tensioner / bottle holder / Rear Rack in the price.



Andrew

[quedecree]

I'm looking in the same places and at the same trikes you are. Have you seen MR's site? http://mrrecumbenttrikes.com/mrtrikes.html

82 km per day commuting by bike ? I couldn't imagine that. What sort of average speed are you looking at?

[}SkOrPn--7]

Based on feedback elsewhere the general censuses seems to be that I wouldn't be any faster on the Villager and possibly slower. Does this sound about right?

Andrew the catrike villager has a 20" rear wheel which would mean your going to be slower where as the expedition has a 26" rear wheel so the speed will be there. You can buy the conversion kit to mount a 26" on a 20" frame but that is an added cost of a starting price $174 USD.

One thing you need to work out is your choice of direct steer and USS steer and the direct steer has more room in the cockpit plus more options to mount things plus a cleaner look as per the catrike which is direct. Another note that catrike has no adjustable seat angle unless you look at the villager G2 model or the newer road model and you being a big guy might find that adjust-ability is very important I know I did it was a must have for me. Also you being a big guy the seat frame on the sides may dig in and annoy you so make sure you test ride that model as the seat isn't very wide.

I hope that helps a little to add to your research knowledge.

Ricky

[Aushiker]

Andrew the catrike villager has a 20" rear wheel which would mean your going to be slower where as the expedition has a 26" rear wheel so the speed will be there. You can buy the conversion kit to mount a 26" on a 20" frame but that is an added cost of a starting price $174 USD.

Thanks for the info on the conversion kit. I was not aware of that. I have pretty much come to the understanding now hence looking at trikes with either 26" rear wheel or better still a 700c or option to take one.

One thing you need to work out is your choice of direct steer and USS steer and the direct steer has more room in the cockpit plus more options to mount things plus a cleaner look as per the catrike which is direct. Another note that catrike has no adjustable seat angle unless you look at the villager G2 model or the newer road model and you being a big guy might find that adjust-ability is very important I know I did it was a must have for me. Also you being a big guy the seat frame on the sides may dig in and annoy you so make sure you test ride that model as the seat isn't very wide.

Getting to try one out is going to be pretty hard I think other than the Villager. I guess that will at least give me a taste of Catrike steering. With regards to the seat size are you referring to the Expedition or would the seat be the same on the Villager? I guess trying the Villager will give me some idea. Thanks for heads-up on these points.

If I don't get or miss out on the Expedition on special at Flying Furniture then other trikes such as the ICE Sprint start to come in price.

I really like the look of the Expedition from the photos and whilst there are comprises I am starting to think it will cover all my road riding activities including some dirt road touring.

Appreciate your input and if you have anything more thoughts, please do share.

Andrew

[}SkOrPn--7]

Andrew the catrike villager has a 20" rear wheel which would mean your going to be slower where as the expedition has a 26" rear wheel so the speed will be there. You can buy the conversion kit to mount a 26" on a 20" frame but that is an added cost of a starting price $174 USD.

Thanks for the info on the conversion kit. I was not aware of that. I have pretty much come to the understanding now hence looking at trikes with either 26" rear wheel or better still a 700c or option to take one.

One thing you need to work out is your choice of direct steer and USS steer and the direct steer has more room in the cockpit plus more options to mount things plus a cleaner look as per the catrike which is direct. Another note that catrike has no adjustable seat angle unless you look at the villager G2 model or the newer road model and you being a big guy might find that adjust-ability is very important I know I did it was a must have for me. Also you being a big guy the seat frame on the sides may dig in and annoy you so make sure you test ride that model as the seat isn't very wide.

Getting to try one out is going to be pretty hard I think other than the Villager. I guess that will at least give me a taste of Catrike steering. With regards to the seat size are you referring to the Expedition or would the seat be the same on the Villager? I guess trying the Villager will give me some idea. Thanks for heads-up on these points.

If I don't get or miss out on the Expedition on special at Flying Furniture then other trikes such as the ICE Sprint start to come in price.

I really like the look of the Expedition from the photos and whilst there are comprises I am starting to think it will cover all my road riding activities including some dirt road touring.

Appreciate your input and if you have anything more thoughts, please do share.

Andrew

Andrew to mount a 700c wheel on a 20" frame the same conversion kit used for the 26" works on the 700c as well so no issues there.

http://www.utahtrikes.com/PRODINFO-26_Wheel_Extension_Kit_for_Catrikes.html

As far as I know most of the catrike models have the same width seat but what changes or can be changed is the mesh seat. In the later versions there more padded and have more adjusting straps on them for better comfort but either way one way around it is to purchase from below ACS10 and make a new seat mesh.

http://www.empind.com.au/shop/item/air-circulation-mesh-acs10

I think you will be very happy with any of the catrikes and be extremely happy with the expedition and going off road on any trike is fine even with road tyres. If you plan on doing more off road use then it will more than likely be a good move to get a compromise on tyre that is fast on the road but has better handling on the gravel and crap off road such as the schwalbe big apple which smooths out the bumps. I also think bang for buck catrike is right up there for that price bracket your looking at and I don't even own one so I have no bias just honest info to help your ability to search out your needs.

One other thing is catrike has a number of custom bags that fit the frame and rear triangle to make things look neat and not stick out which might appeal to you as well.

http://www.utahtrikes.com/PRODINFO-Catrike_Arkel_Bags.html

One other thing is most who have a catrike they all say you need a neck rest as I even got one for my trike it just seems trikes need neck rests for that added comfort level so another heads up there buddy.

Ricky

[Aushiker]

One other thing is catrike has a number of custom bags that fit the frame and rear triangle to make things look neat and not stick out which might appeal to you as well.

http://www.utahtrikes.com/PRODINFO-Catrike_Arkel_Bags.html

One other thing is most who have a catrike they all say you need a neck rest as I even got one for my trike it just seems trikes need neck rests for that added comfort level so another heads up there buddy.

Thanks Ricky. I saw those bags at Flying Furniture and it seems that there are "front panniers" (side bags) so speak available as well from Flying Furniture. FF describes them as

seat sidebag panniers 2 x 12.5 litre extra touring capacity sidebags that sit beside the Catrike seats

and they are priced at $195. No further details but which is a bit frustrating.

One thing I am noticing is that there seems little choice in the market place bar buying locally. Not quite the same as the road market with all the UK/European choices.

Andrew

[Phil]

I had a good look over the Catrike expedition in June when I was in Canberra and spent a few hours at Flying Furniture.

I looked over the HPV Scorpion FS (the one in was sold already so no ride), great build - felt overengineered, and big and heavy.

The Sprint FS is quite nice, puts the power down nicely and has much less flex that the 2012 Vortex+ I sold. But is around the $4K mark.

One thing to bare in mind is with wheelsizes is maneurability - the 26" and 700cc rear ends are longer (yes more stable at speed) but tight turns will not happen. The PSP at the top of the Parliament hill where it meets Hay St even using the full width was impossible to get around without knuckle dragging the trike back.

The other thing about trike, even with a 20" rear wheel pushing a 53-11 combo - other than downhills are you really going to be using this pushing a 18Kg trike plus gear? After having had a 700cc rear end I would lean towards 3 x 20" convenience (only one type of spares), manevrability. I would be more concerned about a nice strong non-flexy boom, and a comfy seat.

I also had a go with a Catrike Expedition. stiff boom, comfy seats, and I like the pricing and quality - definately the value winner IMO. I like the way the Cattrikes were put together, If I were to buy another trike 90% it would be a Cattrike Road.

Oh and if you are after the 2 x 12.5L seatbag panniers from my Vortex, I have them at home and I can let them go quite reasonably as well as a Purple Sky Flag (Think Stuart and I got the last ones before they shut the doors).

[Phil]

Oh and as a speed comparison on the PSP heading home against the Doctor on my strong days I was about 1-2kph slower on the Vortex+ vs my Bianchi Roadie. 32kph on trike typically. 37kph on the Bacchetta CA2, and 36 kph on the Bianchi - this is Narrows to Canning Bridge averages around 5:30pm on weekdays.

[Aushiker]

Thanks Phil for your comments. WIll reply in more detail abit later. For the moment I just want to add another aspect to the discussion ... the Challenger



It seems that this shell is designed to be fitted to a ICE Sprint ... Interesting as it opens up the opportunity to purchase a Sprint for the short to medium term and then morph it into a velomobile. Stupid idea?

Andrew

[Baalzamon]

I suspect that could be a tad warm. Could be a good sauna in summer tho.
there are a few other varieties floating around I spotted on BROL

[Aushiker]

... If I were to buy another trike 90% it would be a Cattrike Road.

A floor stock (demo) road is now being offered for $2,260 delivered to WA.







Some paint off as per the photos. Seller is offering to remove chain adjuster which saves me $100 and a I can get a new ring gear protector for $89.

I need to confirm this but I believe it has:

(1) Rack attached
(2) Bottle holder
(3) Computer Sensor Mount
(4)Space neck rest

Would I be stupid to pass this up? Any other changes/adds ons to consider?

Andrew

[Riggsbie]

Phil, I might be interested in the side bags for my Vortex FS....

Can you PM some details ?

Thanks

Riggsbie

P.S. would love to get a 26" back end for my Vortex FS....

[Baalzamon]

Looks like someone has given that bash guard a good taste of the ground. Either from braking and tipping the trike nose up or tipping the nose up too much when moving it around

[Aushiker]

Looks like someone has given that bash guard a good taste of the ground. Either from braking and tipping the trike nose up or tipping the nose up too much when moving it around

Concern?

Andrew

[Phil]

Thanks Phil for your comments. WIll reply in more detail abit later. For the moment I just want to add another aspect to the discussion ... the Challenger



It seems that this shell is designed to be fitted to a ICE Sprint ... Interesting as it opens up the opportunity to purchase a Sprint for the short to medium term and then morph it into a velomobile. Stupid idea?

Andrew

Maybe - Maybe Not?

Had a look at the page and not much info. If it works with FS its worthy of consideration. Does not say how much it costs.

I think Velos in Perth are generally going to be a sweat box though, so not worth the $'s. The Freo Doctor as much as we curse it, at least cools us down, but then we are only so hot and sweaty from fighting it - so who knows? I do know I am not prepared to commit the money to find out.

[John Lewis]

Thanks Phil for your comments. WIll reply in more detail abit later. For the moment I just want to add another aspect to the discussion ... the Challenger



It seems that this shell is designed to be fitted to a ICE Sprint ... Interesting as it opens up the opportunity to purchase a Sprint for the short to medium term and then morph it into a velomobile. Stupid idea?

Andrew

I think that would be a no go here in our climate.

The likes of mango,quest types are relatively open with good air flow.
From reading Nitramluaps posts it would seem that they are bearable here in summer .
The one in the picture with the enclosed glass would be lie a solar sauna in summer.
Think car in the sun on hot day with the sun shining through windows.

John

[John Lewis]

A comment on relative speeds.
Well I'm pretty slow at the best of times but I find I'm faster on any of my two wheel bents. Lowrace, LWB and SWB than on the trike by a fair margin. Probably about 4 kmh.

I'm faster than the lot of them in the velo. A good 4 to 5 kmh faster than any of the two wheelers.

On the trike I make about 12 kmh, the two wheelers probably 16 kmh or so and the velo 20 -22 kmh average.
I can get the velo to 30+ kmh on the flat but can't hold it for long. I'd battle to make 20 in a short burst on any of the others. Into the wind the mango is way ahead.

John

[Aushiker]

Just for those interested I have had a response from on the Challenger.

With Challenger as a standard you will get lights, indicators, battery, mirrors, wiper, steering conversion bits for the trike and carbon fibre tiller.
Challenger can be made in any RAL colour you will choose.
Price is the same regardless it is delivered fully assembled or as a kit. The shell is pre-assembled and eventually split to 4 separate parts for transportation.
Delivery charges will be about £400 for fully assembled machine.

I got the possibility to fit any available hub motor or chain drive motor.
The most suitable ICE trikes are Sprint RS and FS.

Lenght- 260 cm.
Width- 80 cm,
Height- 110 cm,
Weight- 32 kg
Turning radius- 5m
Colours- RAL unlimited

Prices are as follows:
Challenger 2000 pounds
Sprint in velomobile version 2550 pounds. This is price for front
suspension Sprint, with hydraulic disc brakes and mesh seat.

This works out in total (Sprint + Challenger + shipping) at ~ $7,600. There was a comment at BROL about being able to open the hood up to add to ventilation, but I do agree that the "clear" top might not be a great idea.

I also got a chance tonight to ride the Villager. Definitely done more kilometres that initially suggested ... ridden through to Norseman for starters. That said it is in good condition. It has twist shifters which really didn't excite me. I also discovered that the brake levers work just one brake

The other aspect that I noticed was the steering felt heavy. This might have been as much about my slow speed as anything.

Still it was interesting and I learnt one good thing. The seat angle was too high for me ... so I believe now that I would be okay on a say a Road seat (it was something that worried me).

Oh, the cockpit is lacking too. I guess this is normal with trikes

Andrew

[Riggsbie]

If you are heading down the ICE Sprint path, check out the Borealis velo body......

http://velomobiles.ca/Borealis.html

They fit a Sprint and will fit a Vortex FS (I was heading this way before I took the plunge and bought the Mango). I think they recommend an FS version.....

Now that adds a bit more to think about

[John Lewis]

Both those conversions are interesting but I suspect still a compromise compared with a "true" velo.

I suspect they might be heavier and slower. They are still very neat though and if the body would fit my Logo trike I'd be interested in it.

It's all a compromise anyway. The quest is very fast but has a big turning radius. The mango a bit slower but the wheel arch cutouts allow a tighter turn radius for the commuter.

Closer to home the RotoVelo is based on a trike, is pretty affordable and certainly tougher than the fibreglass velos. Only real current disadvantage is no suspension but that is to change. It seems not to be as fast as some of the European ones though.
Wouldn't it be great if we could see them all, test and compare before making up our minds.
John

[Aushiker]

It's all a compromise anyway. The quest is very fast but has a big turning radius. The mango a bit slower but the wheel arch cutouts allow a tighter turn radius for the commuter.

Where does the Strada fit into this mix. Must admit thinking about my little play on the Catrike Villager have lost somewhat my enthusiasm for a trike, well at least direct steer trike anyway. Would like to try an ICE USS model and of course a Mango

Wouldn't it be great if we could see them all, test and compare before making up our minds.

Yes indeed.

Andrew

[chuckchunder]

If you are genuinely interested in a trike still there is a Logo for sale on the WAHPV site - http://www.wahpv.org It's done about 5000km, but is in excellent condition with barely a mark on it. I have seen it in the flesh, but not ridden it. I suspect that Ed would be negotiable on the price given it has been advertised for a while. Watch for sticky brake levers on the Bitex brakes.

In my opinion trikes generally do not sell quickly, and do not generally hold their value well. I monitor E-bay, Gumtree, Quokka, Bike-Exchange, MR Recumbents second hand page and WAHPV and OzHPV for sales. Most are advertised for a significant period before sale, and prices drop accordingly. If you jag a buyer looking for what you are selling at the right moment then wacko, but from my observations this doesn't appear to be the norm.

cheers

glen

[Phil]

In my opinion trikes generally do not sell quickly, and do not generally hold their value well. I monitor E-bay, Gumtree, Quokka, Bike-Exchange, MR Recumbents second hand page and WAHPV and OzHPV for sales. Most are advertised for a significant period before sale, and prices drop accordingly. If you jag a buyer looking for what you are selling at the right moment then wacko, but from my observations this doesn't appear to be the norm.

Very fair call - I think it applies to all recumbents not just trikes though. Not really expecting to sell my Bacchetta in under six months, not even sure its the money so much as the lack of market.

[Aushiker]

A bit more on the Challenger and heat ... I think they don't the ventilation issue for us

There is plenty ventilation inside cabin. 2 air scoops are fitted in the lower front and one vent just below windscreen. Also rear part of the canopy is dismantlable. See picture

Andrew