Living with a velomobile

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:07 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:Key example is their new air /oil dampened rear shock absorber which performs much better than the original and is better and way cheaper than after market versions which the rest of the velomobile community is buying and retrofitting to their quests and mango etc. I got this and recommend it :-)


I wonder if this is the shock?

Andrew


No thats another one. The Sinner Bikes shock is gas filled, meaning you never have to pump it up. The after market Risse Air shocks need to be pumped to the correct pressure. The DT Swiss one in that picture has a valve so I assume it needs pumping too.

The Sinner bikes shock also has variable damping although its done via allen key so not something you can do on the fly. Mine came with quite a stiff adjustment and I've never bothered touching it. It seems very good as it is.
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by BNA » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:19 pm

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:19 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Meant to ask John. Did you get slugged import duties? I assume GST had to be paid.

Andrew


No duty payable as it is a new bicycle complete. GST is however levied and I had to pay a fee for the customs.

Kuehne + Nagel did a good job and was painless. I hink far easier than trying to do the paperwork myself.

John
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:25 pm

Bartek wrote:Rhubarb - thanks for the info and the videos. I will e-mail Harma and see if they can be added.

By the way what types of locks/chains are people using on their Mangos. I have been looking at the Kryptonite and the ABUS ones and possibly a ground anchor for the shed, but it would be nice to know what fits and what doesn't. Does anybody not bother locking up, I seldom lock my trike up as it is usually in the garage at home or at the station in a secure area.


I lock mine at work using an old bike lock chain that has a loop at each end. I loop 1 end around a railing and back through the other eye. I then loop the other end through the frame behind the seat and lock it back onto itself. Because the cable is curly, an old guy at work thought that was how I charged my "electric car". I don't know how the thought the railing was providing any power.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:27 pm

Rhubarb wrote:@John Lewis

I just noticed the mango tour comes with a MTB triple of 42/32/24 combo. The smaller rings might help your other issues too.


Yes I'm chasing one now but 44- 33- 22 SRAM. I got the 22 cog fitted on the mid drive and I'm waiting for an 11- 32 sprocket. Not sure if it will work for me due the tensioner interference but I'll see. Wonder how much extra 10 spd chain I'll need.
Wonder if it is the outrigger style bearings and hollowtech type?

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:38 pm

mozart wrote:I just had message from Harma at sinner that my Mango tour will be assembled this coming wednesday ,hope that it will not to long that my Mango will be in Australia :D


Great news. Hope the wait isn't too painful.
Harma has made quite a difference. My part turned up pretty well as fast as the post could manage.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:28 pm

Re Da Hood and Flevo roof.

If you take Da Hood you are stuck with it for the ride. The Flevo roof can be rolled and stowed.

I believe there is a version of the hood for the Quest by Wim Shermer that can be broken into pieces for stowing.

I think you could somehow stick the hood up front some how if you really had to. It might be in the way a bit but not too bad.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby il padrone » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:15 pm

Stick it in that Sinner Transporter that Andrew posted :wink:
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:34 am

Harry from Sinner Bikes (aka Twilwel) posted this on the BROL forum:

"Because of demand of customers, SinnerBikes built in a SON single sided dynamo hub. Had to be combined with disc brakes and was surprisingly loud.
Now we build in any kind of normal hub dynamos under the seat, driven by a belt from the mid-drive hub. It's quiet, works great and can even be shut off mechanically. We can combine the dynamo with hub gears and derailleur."


Image

"However, we use the dynamo to charge a buffer battery, because that way we can do anything we want with electronic equipment (horn, usb and so on) and the rider does not have to worry about having no light and indicators when stopped."

Shown above is the NuVinci planetary gearing system mated to the dynamo. The mid drive design really does offer Sinner an infinite number of options re gearing, electric assist, dynamos etc. I really like the way it can be disengaged on the fly for climbing etc.

Aushiker - This may suit your audax / mega commuting requirements.

PS - My evil plan to do your head in with exponential option analysis is progressing nicely .... <insert evil laugh here> :twisted:
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:19 am

il padrone wrote:Stick it in that Sinner Transporter that Andrew posted :wink:


That thing looks scary :) I hate to think now much it weighs or what the wind resistance will be like.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:23 am

Rhubarb wrote:Shown above is the NuVinci planetary gearing system mated to the dynamo. The mid drive design really does offer Sinner an infinite number of options re gearing, electric assist, dynamos etc. I really like the way it can be disengaged on the fly for climbing etc.

Aushiker - This may suit your audax / mega commuting requirements.


Thanks for this. So as I understand it one would stick to drum brakes and have a dynamo built in at the mid-drive point. I wonder then if I could supply the dynamo, e.g., a Shutter Precision dynamo. Sounds interesting.

BTW where are all these magic posts happening? At BROL?

Oh I found an image of the disc-dynamo set up ...

Image

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:30 pm

Image

Interesting write-up of first impressions of a Milan ... particularly the comments on heat and noise. How does the Sinner Mango compare?



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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:47 pm

This link may have been posted before but I'm feeling too lazy to go search.
Lots of info here for Andrew to read through.

I agree with one comment. The Mango sounds noisy until you get up a bit of speed then all you can hear is the wind noise.

http://hembrow.eu/personal/sinnermango.html

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:59 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Interesting write-up of first impressions of a Milan ... particularly the comments on heat and noise. How does the Sinner Mango compare?

Andrew


As he says, riding a velomobile is fundamentally different to anything he had ridden before. It takes a few months to get used to a velomobile - I feel like I'm still learning and adjusting even now after 4 months. I had never even ridden a recumbent before so it was all very different for me and quite a shock in many ways.

The body of a velomobile (at the fibreglass and carbon ones) seems to amplify sounds, so it can be quite noisy over bumpy roads / paths, but not in a particularly bad or consistently loud way. A bit like a wheely bin I think, in that it seems to rumble over bumps. The drivetrain is also a bit more convoluted than on a DF bike so there is additional background noise with the chain dragging through the tubes etc. This seems to present as a whirring, rrrrrr, rrrrr, rrrr, as you pedal, but you don't really notice it while riding. In fact, without the hood on, the biggest noise is wind noise, just like on a DF bike, except maybe there's more because you're going faster :-) With the hood on, the wind noise is much less, thus making the drivetrain and bump noises more prominent. If travelling at speed, it is difficult to have a conversation with another rider when you have the hood on. No problems without the hood.

So as far as an experience goes, it is noisier than riding a DF bike but not noisy per se. Nitramluap rides with ear plugs and listens to music but he does that on his dutch upright ebike too. I understand a rotovelo is quieter but I've never seen one in the flesh so can't really compare.

The heat again is something entirely dependent on conditions. The Milan is a more track oriented velomobile than the Mango. It only has 1 (or none in the Milan SL version) foothole which also provide ventilation, whereas the mango has 2. The hood there is also quite aerodynamic with limited air flow. When I ride the mango with the hood, I only fully close the visor when going fast or if its very cold. Otherwise I continually adjust it to provide optimal air flow. Normally this means about a 3 to 5cm gap at the bottom, but any decent hills and it goes right up. At high speed ie >60km/hr, it actually helps your stability to have it fully closed.

Oddly, I think the weight was the biggest shock for me initially, but maybe thats because I have 18% hills to negotiate every day and weak skinny legs.

And be assured, you will be the most visible bike on the road, arguably more eye catching than cars. You just can't stop right behind a 4wd or pass the left of 4wds where you are below their window height and hence out of sight. The speed of the velomobile often allows you to claim the lane more often too, as shown in my "Sylvan Road drag" video. Overall I feel much safer in the velomobile than on a normal bike.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:29 pm

Mango and other velomobiles in Korea ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwM5Umun8k&hd=1[/youtube]

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:00 am

Sinner Bikes have uploaded a video of how they mount a dynamo as part of the mid-drive. Looks interesting but I wonder about the durability and ease of serviceability of the rubber band.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWCTsN1TFM&hd=1[/youtube]

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Joeblake » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:11 am

It was difficult to see the "rubber band" clearly, but it looked a wee bit like the rubber belt on my bread maker, which drives the paddle to knead the dough. Very tough, almost impossible to break, and I'm pretty sure the motor for the breadmaker runs in the couple of hundreds of watts region. I had to replace it after about 10 years.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Bartek » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:46 pm

Rhubarb wrote:No thats another one. The Sinner Bikes shock is gas filled, meaning you never have to pump it up. The after market Risse Air shocks need to be pumped to the correct pressure. The DT Swiss one in that picture has a valve so I assume it needs pumping too.

The Sinner bikes shock also has variable damping although its done via allen key so not something you can do on the fly. Mine came with quite a stiff adjustment and I've never bothered touching it. It seems very good as it is.


So which one is it that I should get? they have quoted 150 euro for the Risse Air shock!
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Bartek wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:No thats another one. The Sinner Bikes shock is gas filled, meaning you never have to pump it up. The after market Risse Air shocks need to be pumped to the correct pressure. The DT Swiss one in that picture has a valve so I assume it needs pumping too.

The Sinner bikes shock also has variable damping although its done via allen key so not something you can do on the fly. Mine came with quite a stiff adjustment and I've never bothered touching it. It seems very good as it is.


So which one is it that I should get? they have quoted 150 euro for the Risse Air shock!


Mine cost less than half that and was made by sinner themselves. I was the first customer in the world to get one so maybe they aren't doing them any more???? That would be a shame though because its excellent and never needs pumping like the Risse shock does.

Just ask sinner for their own nitrogen / oil rear shock.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Bartek » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:11 pm

Thanks will do
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Riggsbie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:56 pm

I have the Nitrogen filled shock as well !

Also my shoulder pads arrived today, boy the service has improved a lot now that Arjen has left the building.......

Shame I have just had a hernia op and cannot ride for a bit :-( not to mention the Tennis Elbow......


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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Roinik » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:25 pm

There's always these ones https://sites.google.com/site/labodemobilite/shop-onthaal/blog
I like the yellow and black one. Quicker and more stable than the Mango, less suspension in the back end, slightly less luggage space, stick steering and 26" rear wheel. A real sports velo.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Bartek » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:47 pm

I have just had an e-mail from Harry at Sinner, they have discontinued the Sinner Nitrogen/oil rear shock as they had some issues when they tried to mass produce. So I will be getting the Risse Genesis, still waiting though :(
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:40 pm

For anyone interested in the Rotovelo, I emailed Trisled yesterday for a status update on suspension and a couple of other aspects of interest to myself and this is the reply from Tim Marquardt, Sales Manager at Trisled:

We are currently testing a dynamo setup for inclusion on the Rotovelo. If we are happy with it, we will offer it as an optional extra. The enclosed drive train is also on the cards, though it will not be offered for some time yet. Suspension is a bigger issue, which we are working on addressing. However, it will not be offered in the near future. I'd love to say they were due to be released soon, but it's simply not the case.

However, only the suspension is really an issue. Adding a dynamo & a corflute cover to the drive train are easy aftermarket mods which will take minimal time & very little expense. I guess it depends on how necessary you feel suspension is. We offer Big Apple tyres as a means of making the ride more supple without the need for the weight & complexity of suspension. I've ridden mine many thousands of KM, and never felt the need for suspension, though I did add a thicker foam pad which made the ride more enjoyable.

I hope this helps.


Is Tim's comments on suspension a valid point?

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Riggsbie » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:48 pm

I had a similar chat with Ben, Tim & Gareth a few weeks back regarding suspension.....

They were all over my Mango like a rash !

I think it's quite a big tear up for Rotovelo and major frame/chassis changes..... I think the Big Apples are a good work around I you already have an RV or can e a cheap secondhand one.....


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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:36 pm

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