Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

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Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Ross » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:35 pm

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nation ... 6528084691

A NEW smartphone app encouraging competitive cycling on city streets, which has been linked to two road deaths in America, is raising road safety concerns.

The "Strava" app, which has tens of thousands of users worldwide, encourages cyclists to compete against each other in timed races along user-created courses through city and suburban streets.

Dubbed a "social fitness" tool, Strava uses GPS to measure a cyclist's speed along a route before uploading their final time results to an online leaderboard where other users are encouraged to compete against them.

While the app specifically warns users against dangerous riding, Strava has been linked to two road fatalities in America, including one in March in which a 71-year-old San Francisco man was knocked down and killed by a cyclist allegedly speeding to beat his Strava time.

In a separate incident in 2010, San Francisco cyclist William "Kim" Flint, 40, was killed while speeding downhill in an attempt to claim the top spot on the Strava leaderboard. His family is now suing the company for encouraging reckless behaviour.

Adelaide cyclist Jason Currall, 41, started using Strava "religiously" about 12 months ago but recently stopped after being tempted to flout the road rules to better his time.

"I started to push it more than I would normally," he said. "Like going through a roundabout just ahead of a car coming from the right.

"I realised that my pursuit of a better time was affecting the way I rode. I stopped using Strava for commutes after that and now only use it for weekend rides, purely as a way of tracking my progress."

Former Olympian and cycling champion Amber Halliday, who is still recovering from the 2011 Tour Down Under crash that left her unable to walk for months, said while the app had positive fitness benefits it could encourage reckless riders to endanger the lives of other road users, as well as their own.

"I do see cyclists who aren't involved in racing at all engaging in risky behaviour on the roads in the spirit of competition like sprinting to a traffic light, for example, and I do think this app enables that," she said.

Head of marketing and fundraising at the Amy Gillett Foundation David Lee said Strava and apps like it could be seen to be going against the "key safety fundamentals" of riding within one's limits, maintaining consistent speeds and obeying the road rules.

"Anything that detracts from those key fundamentals is something we would raise caution towards," he said.

Road Safety Minister Jennifer Rankine urged cyclists to take caution on the roads.

"The roads are not race tracks," she said.
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by BNA » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:21 pm

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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:21 pm

You have to be a brain dead twit, to go and take chances on the streets to better your time. :roll:

People are always looking to blame everyone or something else for their own stupidity, rather than take responsibility for their own actions, give me a bloody break. :evil:
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby skull » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:43 pm

What foo said.

What has happened to personal responsibility, it just always appears to be a blame game now when people hurt themselves from their own stupid actions.

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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby il padrone » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:53 pm

foo on patrol wrote:You have to be a brain dead twit, to go and take chances on the streets to better your time. :roll:

People are always looking to blame everyone or something else for their own stupidity, rather than take responsibility for their own actions, give me a bloody break. :evil:
(fools)

I would say the same about Melbourne's Beach Road 'Hell Ride' and bunch riders at traffic lights, but hey look, they still go and do it :roll:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby yarravalleyplodder » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:58 pm

foo on patrol wrote:People are always looking to blame everyone or something else for their own stupidity, rather than take responsibility for their own actions, give me a bloody break. :evil:
(fools)


Spot on Foo, its just more nanny state thinking when all that required is for people to be responsible for their own actions. There will always be Darwin award winners and honorable mentions, why should the responsible majority pay for their stupidity?

Besides, how does one upload onto strava in the first place if one doesnt get home in 1 piece 8)
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby jasonc » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:05 pm

yarravalleyplodder wrote:Besides, how does one upload onto strava in the first place if one doesnt get home in 1 piece 8)


last will and testament?
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Baldy » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:11 pm

Thats right Foo, no one sprinted for a pole,sign,tree,that blade of grass before strava! Sprinting to be first over the hill? Unheard of before strava of course.

If Amber can tell if someone races or not just by looking at them then her talent is wasted as a bike rider.

Jason seems to be missing the obvious option. You can choose which segments you want to contest.

David Lee used a lot of words to say nothing.[could be seen]

I agree with Jennifer. As long as she is aware is can be very challenging riding at speeds well below the speed limit. Sprinting up the road trying to beat your time for a 1km at 50kph in a 80 zone is not hurting anyone if done in the right place.

Just wait until Petra finds out about stop watches :roll:
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:43 pm

One of my favorite sayings is..... There is no accounting for human stupidity :mrgreen: and this article certainly doesn't change my mind one bit. :wink:

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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby jasonc » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:04 pm

Baldy wrote:Jason seems to be missing the obvious option. You can choose which segments you want to contest.


Didn't miss it. just suggesting an option for those who believe it's not their fault. You always have to make that call in a segment. traffic - pass. pedestrians - pass. red lights - pass.

if you get a chance and the sun is shining in your favour, why not! if it's not, there's always tomorrow
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Marty Moose » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:05 pm

Strava made me do it its the fault of strava not mine!! I agree with foo and others.

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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Cossie Phil » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:15 pm

People certainly have to be responsible for their own actions. Our society is riddled with what has emerged as a blame culture.

I note that the articles seem to be refering to downhill segments...for me they don't count or carry any weight...its only the climb KOM's that truely earn respect.

Disable the leaderboard display for any enirely downhil segments in residential area's and the problem will be solved. I cant think of any that I would miss, the best I have done are nowhere near houses or pedestrian thoroughfare's.

The article above is just another uninformed beatup...with comments from some who should know better...Strava already has the issue covered with their 'report a dangerous segment' functionality. Poor form SMH/Herald Sun.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Baldy » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:11 pm

jasonc wrote:
Baldy wrote:Jason seems to be missing the obvious option. You can choose which segments you want to contest.


Didn't miss it. just suggesting an option for those who believe it's not their fault. You always have to make that call in a segment. traffic - pass. pedestrians - pass. red lights - pass.

if you get a chance and the sun is shining in your favour, why not! if it's not, there's always tomorrow


Not their fault? You have lost me. I agree that anytime you do not get a clear run that is the end of the effort. There is always next time.

What I was saying is you don't have to contest the segments with potential interruptions, where you might be tempted to take risks. But ideally just do what you said and sit up if you have to.

Jason I think the key thing here is you need a heavier bike with racks and panniers for commuting :P
I have done 3093km this year on mine, never had the Garmin on it and my phone has no gps. It has a wired comp which is just there to count km's. I don't care how fast I'm going I just use that bike to get around.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby damhooligan » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:29 pm

wrote:Adelaide cyclist Jason Currall, 41, started using Strava "religiously" about 12 months ago but recently stopped after being tempted to flout the road rules to better his time.
"I started to push it more than I would normally," he said. "Like going through a roundabout just ahead of a car coming from the right.
"I realised that my pursuit of a better time was affecting the way I rode. I stopped using Strava for commutes after that and now only use it for weekend rides, purely as a way of tracking my progress."


And this is true.
At least he admits it.

Strava does influence cyclists behaviour, and it might go to far.
Most people on this forum believe that road rules are important and breaking them is not good for the image.
But nobody seems to be concerned about the fact that strava is influencing cyclists, and causing them to break those rules ?
I find that strange.

I got strong concerns about strava, had them for a while.
It promotes racing on public roads, there is no place for racing on public roads.
Removing the leaderboard would be a good option.

The question you have to ask yourself, are you legally allowed to race on public roads by bicycle ?
I cant find anything in the law to back that up, but im sure most people can agree on that it should not be legal to race.
Any app, that promotes something that is an illegal activity, should not be allowed.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:34 pm

You have the choice to be a fool or not, the app does not say you have to do it. :roll:

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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby damhooligan » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:07 pm

foo on patrol wrote:You have the choice to be a fool or not, the app does not say you have to do it. :roll:

Foo


If only it was that easy.
Being a fool , may be a choice, but it is heavily influenced by everything that happens around you.
Imformation that is being given to you, action of others.
Its not that black and white foo.

Strava has an underestemated influence on the action of cyclists.
Only a fool would ignore that.
The smart one would accept this, and would find a way to deal with this.

How many strava users do you think wil think twice about the consequenses of their competitions they engage in.
I would not be surprised if most people think its just harmless fun.
I would not be surprised if a lot of people are not even realising they actualy show sign of different riding.
The story of that guy in the paper, is only one example, but he stopped.
How many do you think are stil doing that.....
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:11 pm

Just flag a stupid segment then... People making segments for every block of their commute is pointless. Come on how many segments do you need for the m7 cycle path for example ;-) .
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby jasonc » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:14 pm

Baldy wrote:
jasonc wrote:
Baldy wrote:Jason seems to be missing the obvious option. You can choose which segments you want to contest.


Didn't miss it. just suggesting an option for those who believe it's not their fault. You always have to make that call in a segment. traffic - pass. pedestrians - pass. red lights - pass.

if you get a chance and the sun is shining in your favour, why not! if it's not, there's always tomorrow


Not their fault? You have lost me.


no sarcasm tag. i agree with everything what you're saying.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Xplora » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:47 pm

The Adelaide rider took responsibility for his actions, decided on a better plan that he could manage, and continued to use the tools at his disposal for his advantage.

Guns and knives are equally risky. A speedometer is also risky.

DamH, you've advocated against the MHL, a helmetless rider is someone who is taking their risks and being comfortable with them. A Strava rider is doing something the same. You will always increase your risk by going faster. That's OK. No one is forced onto Strava. No one is forced to take the KOM.

One of the best revolutions for cycling is not going to sit in time out because a few dweebs can't control themselves and their bikes, just like a case of beer isn't going to sit in time out because of alcoholics. We cease to be human if we refuse to allow anyone to be better than the lowest common denominator.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Nobody » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:03 pm

Related thread on SC. See Herzog's reply.
http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topi ... 746&page=2
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby damhooligan » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:13 pm

Xplora wrote:The Adelaide rider took responsibility for his actions, decided on a better plan that he could manage, and continued to use the tools at his disposal for his advantage.

Guns and knives are equally risky. A speedometer is also risky.

DamH, you've advocated against the MHL, a helmetless rider is someone who is taking their risks and being comfortable with them. A Strava rider is doing something the same. You will always increase your risk by going faster. That's OK. No one is forced onto Strava. No one is forced to take the KOM.

One of the best revolutions for cycling is not going to sit in time out because a few dweebs can't control themselves and their bikes, just like a case of beer isn't going to sit in time out because of alcoholics. We cease to be human if we refuse to allow anyone to be better than the lowest common denominator.



Beer, cigarettes, guns, they all come with safety warnings and restrictions controlled by the goverment.

Strava is not regulated nor controlled, yet it does promote something that can be considered illegal.
Why it is so wrong for me to say that this is not a good thing??
How about kids ???, how many young adults are doing this strava thing ?

I am not saying that strava is to blame fully, I agree that the individual has the main responsibility here, BUT.
Strava is not without blame, they do create an opportunity to race on public roads.
Without anywhere saying, be carefull of the risks kinda thing.
They are part of the problem.

And... the strava app is not a revolution, bike computers have been around for ages, as well as competing.
There are plenty of smart systems out there that allow you to analise the data afterwards, and compare it it to others.
But the only thing they dont do is what strava does, allow strangers to compete.
Not just compare, but compete, its the competing I have very strong concerns about.
Cause its being done on public roads.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Marty Moose » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:31 pm

How is someone doing a tt effort on the road or hill sprints i.e training any different to riding a strava segment. Both are timed both competitive. Why do we always default to the lowest common denominator the person who makes bad judgements, as a guide to how we all should behave. Strava doesn't need controls on it its user pays. One of the posts mentions govt control...... Isn't out great to be able to choose ones own behaviour and consequences for once without being regulated to death.

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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby g-boaf » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:55 pm

The heavy handed solution would be to ban any tracking device letting people accurately time their segments on rides!

I think I'll suggest it to the authorities, let us see if they or the media will be gullible enough to not see the sarcasm in it...

People need to take responsibility for their actions. Strava doesn't kill anyone. I'm new to Strava and love it. Great way for me to see how I compare with other riders over my familiar rides. I'll still ride with care though.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:09 pm

g-boaf wrote:The heavy handed solution would be to ban any tracking device letting people accurately time their segments on rides!

I think I'll suggest it to the authorities, let us see if they or the media will be gullible enough to not see the sarcasm in it...

People need to take responsibility for their actions. Strava doesn't kill anyone. I'm new to Strava and love it. Great way for me to see how I compare with other riders over my familiar rides. I'll still ride with care though.

Make sure you mention that they should ban GPS systems from letting people know where speed cameras are and apps that let you know every red light camera and speed trap :wink: .
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby Kenzo » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:10 pm

damhooligan wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:You have the choice to be a fool or not, the app does not say you have to do it. :roll:

Foo


If only it was that easy.
Being a fool , may be a choice, but it is heavily influenced by everything that happens around you.

We can take this quote to the MHL thread as an admission that MHL is required and justifiable. Quote me from here to that thread if you like... But to me, you just shot yourself in the foot.
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Re: Time out call for competitive cycling app Strava

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:13 pm

Very true... we can be trusted to decide for ourselves whether we wear a helmet or not, but we can not be trusted to decided whether it is safe for us to ride a strava segment or not.
Ban strava and make helmets compulsory :lol: ... I would love to see these arguments on a French forum.
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