Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Recumbents and all feet forward machines

Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby John Lewis » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:35 pm

Riggsbie wrote:Your work has inspired me.....

I have just purchased 6 plans from Atomic Zombie..... I really like the choppers !

Thinking 8 speed Alfine hub laced into an 18" motorcycle rim for the back end.......


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No hope for you now. There will be no end to it. Now, what to build next?
Experience talking as I too got hooked on building up AZ plans.

The choppers with fat tires are neat. Don't know about the rest of Aus but chopper bicycles aren't permitted on the street in W.A. so far as I am aware. Main reason I've not built one.

John
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by BNA » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:16 am

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:16 am

God Australia has some odd rules/regulations !

But real engined powered choppers are ok ? How does that make sense !


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:42 pm

John,

How would you use the Alfine as a mid-drive ? Would you mount the extra drive sprocket ( to rear wheel) in place of the brake disc ?

You have got my thinking now !

Then you would need to find a freewheel hub that runs the wrong way - like the Mango ones ! Where do you find those ?
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby John Lewis » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:02 pm

Riggsbie wrote:John,

How would you use the Alfine as a mid-drive ? Would you mount the extra drive sprocket ( to rear wheel) in place of the brake disc ?

You have got my thinking now !

Then you would need to find a freewheel hub that runs the wrong way - like the Mango ones ! Where do you find those ?

Well the Alfine hub would be fine with the cog mounted as per Mango. Did you notice they had turned the brake mount down a bit on the lathe. The mounting points are only about 1/2 thickness I think. It allows the centre of the sprocket to slide on a bit. Have a look.
I'm not sure of the left hand free hub but I'm sure they are available even if only from Sinner. That of course is only 18 tooth. Harry did mention they may be able to get some with more teeth. That would be nice.

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Bartek » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:45 pm

John Lewis wrote:The choppers with fat tires are neat. Don't know about the rest of Aus but chopper bicycles aren't permitted on the street in W.A. so far as I am aware. Main reason I've not built one.John


I think this may be why John

"Front forks
The angle of the front forks of a bicycle must be reasonably steep. To be legal, the distance from the front axle, back to the vertical line from the steering bearing, should not exceed 250mm.

Handle bars
The handlebars must extend out at least 180mm, but not more than 330mm, on each side of the bicycle’s centre. In addition, the uppermost part of the handlebars can be no more than 300mm above the height of the seat."
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby John Lewis » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:53 pm

Bartek wrote:
John Lewis wrote:The choppers with fat tires are neat. Don't know about the rest of Aus but chopper bicycles aren't permitted on the street in W.A. so far as I am aware. Main reason I've not built one.John


I think this may be why John

"Front forks
The angle of the front forks of a bicycle must be reasonably steep. To be legal, the distance from the front axle, back to the vertical line from the steering bearing, should not exceed 250mm.

Handle bars
The handlebars must extend out at least 180mm, but not more than 330mm, on each side of the bicycle’s centre. In addition, the uppermost part of the handlebars can be no more than 300mm above the height of the seat."

That puts out half the recumbents really.
All of mine have handlebars more than 300 mm above the seat or they would get in the way of your knees.
My long wheelbase bikes all have axle more than 250 mm. This is because of controlling wheel flop. The important thing is the amount of trail.

I know how this rule came about. Way back kids used to rake the forks to look classy. This would reverse the trail and make the bikes unstable and a number of kids were injured. The legislators with no knowledge of steering brought in that rule which of course only works on a standard upright bike.

One state in US has a rule that pedals can be no more than a foot off the ground. It was introduced to kill off Penny Farthings but now prevents most bents such as SWB high racers and the like from being legal in that state. My understanding is it is policed. One of the builders on the AZ forum was caught out.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:50 am

John,

I cannot find a link to the Alfine mid drive in a Mango - could you post it here ?

Ta

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:52 am

Ain't legislation great :wink:

Invented by idiots who know nothing about which they are legislating against......bit like the helmet law here in Oz (gives the hornet's nest a big poke and runs away :D )
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:20 am

Riggsbie wrote:Ain't legislation great :wink:


Yeah, from my experience, most "legislation" (that isn't blatant revenue raising) can be defined as "being seen to take action, regardless of the effectiveness of said action, or if action is in fact taken in the first place".
Personally, I've sworn no allegiance or fealty to anyone, and care very little about legislation I've had no say in. Road laws, for instance, I agreed to when I got my license. These I follow, to the best of my ability (I am human, after all). Some random Pollie telling me how big my bike can be? Screw that! Safety and practicality is my guide there.

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Roinik » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:29 pm

I bet you could count the number of elected representatives who ride regularly on one hand, let alone any that know what a recumbent or a velomobile is and does.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby John Lewis » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:14 am

Riggsbie wrote:John,

I cannot find a link to the Alfine mid drive in a Mango - could you post it here ?

Ta

Paul


Sinner have changed their website and it seems none of my links to their albums work anymore.

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:35 am

I could use some opinions from the Velonoughts out there...

Project 4 is (obviously) a velomobile, and I've built the basic frame, and planned out the steering (push-pull levers either side of the seat). Now I need to decide whether to go for overall simplicity and build it as a speed machine, or go for a multi-purpose velo. The speed design is simpler (giant chain-ring and IGH makes chain routing easier, and no need for storage), and cheaper, as I have 90% of the components already. Multi-purpose is more desirable, but would involve enabling the seat to tip forward for access to the storage area, which requires more engineering, as well as the ability to climb moderate hills and start quickly-ish from traffic lights, which I doubt the gearing set-up on the planned speed design would allow. I'd also need a few more new components (nothing particularly expensive, a new rear rim, some gear shifters etc).

I guess what I'm asking is how much "general/utility" use does your velo get? Do you do the shopping with it, or is it more for casual, fun rides? Should I build the simpler, less useful speed velo as a prototype, or bite the bullet and go for the more complex multi-purpose?


Cheers,
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:00 pm

Random update on the velo project.

I managed to get the seat support worked out today, so that's pretty much the last bit of frame work I had to figure out. I couldn't get away with a single quick release to tip it forward, but two quick release bolts seems to work well. Like my welds, the seat support isn't pretty, but once the seat is covered, and the fairing on, it won't be visible anyway. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out a way to also have the seat adjustable. Next up is to make some idlers to route the chain, then build the frame for the rear fairing itself.

Then I get to figure out how I'm going to manage the front fairing. I'm hoping I can make it slot into the trike frame near the king-pins and act as bracing to reduce (or eliminate) flex in the boom. I have a feeling that much steel will add too much weight though. I also still lack any core-flute large enough to make the front fairing itself. I'm hoping Real Estate agents might have some old "For Sale" signs I can use for that.

Pics when I remember to take them ;)

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby quedecree » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:15 pm

I'm hoping Real Estate agents might have some old "For Sale" signs I can use for that.


You might be able to turn it in to a mobile advert for someone like Ballarat Real Estate and earn a few extra dollars while driving it around :mrgreen:
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:22 am

I'd much rather advertise the LBS!

Got the velo rolling yesterday. Had a hell of a time working out where to put the gear shift on the vertical handle bars. I ended up borrowing one on the bar end stems I mount the mirrors on from the Kodiak, and mounting the shifter on that. I also had to scavenge a small idler from the Grizzly, as I needed one smaller than any of the rollerblade wheels I had would allow.

Now it's time to make the fairing frame. Yay, more welding :|


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:11 pm

Ok, against my better judgment, here are some pics of the "Loafer". Yes, it looks like a shoe. I also ran out of nuts, bolts and washers, so much of the fairing is temporarily attached with cable ties and duct tape. Once my nuts etc arrive, it'll get properly attached. Maybe.

From the outside...
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The cockpit...
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The, er... instrument panel. There was some brotherly influence going on here...
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Here you can see the cargo area behind the seat...
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The seat tips forward for access...
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...to a small "back-pack" stowage area.
Image

I was thinking on giving it a Mango-esque paint job, but it'c clearly the wrong shape. My neighbour suggested I paint it up to look even more like a shoe....


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:44 pm

Looks good Dent !

Puta Nike "Swish" on the side......

I like the dash panel......fuel tank full, you need a moveable needle so you can put it on empty when you are knackered after a long ride !

Excellent work !!


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:48 pm

Cheers, Riggsbie :)

I forgot to show it with the front fairing tipped forward for access...
Image

I tinkered a little today. Added a parking brake seeing as the IGH had a roller brake going to waste, and adjusted the wheel arches where they rubbed a little when the wheels were at full lock. I'm getting some chain slippage, which I hope IS chain slip, and not something in the IGH, as I can solve chain slip with a new chain. I'm not sure of the age/usage of the hub itself. If it turns out to be an issue with the hub, I'll probably switch back to a 7 speed cassette, which may require altering the idler positions.

I also took her for a short evening ride around the neighbourhood, and discovered I really need a windscreen to deflect bugs away from my eyes! Been pondering what I can use to make one. I don't want to use new materials, as so far the only new stuff I've used are nuts and bolts, cables, and the front rims.

Oh, and wheel covers. I need to make some of those too.

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Roinik » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:08 pm

DentedHead wrote:I also took her for a short evening ride around the neighbourhood, and discovered I really need a windscreen to deflect bugs away from my eyes! Been pondering what I can use to make one. I don't want to use new materials, as so far the only new stuff I've used are nuts and bolts, cables, and the front rims.


How big would a windscreen be if you made it out of the centre section of a 2 litre soft drink bottle? Would that be big enough? I've had PET bottles sitting in the garden as tree protectors for ages and they seem to hold up to the UV pretty well.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:41 pm

It might be big enough. Theoretically, it only needs to be wide enough that the bugs avoid my face... I'll give it a try.


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:34 am

Aarrgh!! Tragedy has struck!

Took the Loafer for a quick run up to the corner shop in a ferocious headwind, and parked facing down wind. Came out from the shop to find the wind has caught under the "hood" which I'd foolishly left unsecured, and bent it 180 degrees, breaking the original, factory welds on the front support tubes.

Ah well. I didn't really like how the front fairing had turned out anyway.


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:08 am

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Masi Speciale CX 2008 - Brooks B17 special saddle, Garmin Edge 810
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Roinik » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:21 pm

Dent,

Sad to hear about the Loafer. Check out this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M0HJ0QJRkA and pay close attention to the deraileur adjustment mechanism. I'm sure it would work if you had an internal gear hub. I haven't any information on the differential. I wasn't too interested in that for now.

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:15 pm

That is a neat setup !

I have an 8 speed Alfine hub gear for a chopper project with a mid drive :-) just figuring out how to use. 5.5 inch wide 17" diameter motorcycle rim with a bicycle hub with LHD sprocket......

Then it's tie to start welding !


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:14 pm

Roinik wrote:Dent,

... pay close attention to the deraileur adjustment mechanism...


Looked to me like a chain length solution for the adjustable BB. The issue with RD's and the IGH is the amount of resistance when back-pedaling. The "drive" side simply goes slack and drops off the sprocket.

Riggsbie wrote:I have an 8 speed Alfine hub gear for a chopper project with a mid drive :-) just figuring out how to use. 5.5 inch wide 17" diameter motorcycle rim with a bicycle hub with LHD sprocket......


Don't you need a jack shaft to get the chain past the rear tyre anyway? Can't you just "jack" it over to the left rather than the right?

Just went for our first family ride, me on the "Half-Loafer" (rear fairing only), Joshie on his new Kmart BMX, and Mrs Dent on her new Specialized Expedition Sport (see here: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60098 ). 40mins, down to the in-laws to borrow a helmet, then up to a nearby car park Joshie and I frequently hoon around in (it has speed bumps and a gravel "skid-pan", lots of fun for irresponsible riding ;) ). I was utilizing the rear "park" brake to spin out the Loafer, and managed to roll it as we were about to leave to head home! My guess is the sudden crosswind pressure on the rear fairing assisted the roll, as it was my first stack on a trike. Managed to roll it right over on top of me. Slight grazing on my elbow, but fortunately (and more importantly) no damage to the Loafer!

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