1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby jcjordan » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:15 am

greyhoundtom wrote:
jcjordan wrote:
Mind you I am also a fan of aging tires, especially tubs, for at least 12 months before use.

With all the different compounds being used these day’s in the manufacture of tyres, would aging a tyre still have the same effect of making them wear better as it did 10/15 years ago?


Based on my experience it still matters. I have a substantially better time against punctures when the tire is aged.
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by BNA » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:20 am

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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby Oltre » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:20 am

:x punctured my rear Verdestein Fortezza TriComp Pro tubular tyre. I am guessing that being vulcanised, there's no manual internal repair possible?

The hole is very tiny and I do have a 100mL can of Michelin Stop&Go but never used such a product. Is it tubular compatible (latex inners) and do I dump the whole can in the one tyre via the valve?

Anyone with practical experience? Will this foam sealant be long lasting?

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Cheers
Last edited by Oltre on Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:43 pm

Oltre wrote::x punctured by rear Verdestein Fortezza TriComp Pro tubular tyre. I am guessing that being vulcanised, there's no manual internal repair possible?

The hole is very tiny and I do have a 100mL can of Michelin Stop&Go but never used such a product. Is it tubular compatible (latex inners) and do I dump the whole can in the one tyre via the valve?

Anyone with practical experience? Will this foam sealant be long lasting?

Image

Cheers


Vulcanisation has nothing to do with repairability. These tubulars can be repaired, I have a repaired one as my spare. Repairing tubulars is easy enough but many people can't be bothered. It is very difficult to repair a tubular that has had a 'sealant' put into it though, so it is either/or.

The process for repair
1. Find the hole (note that air will often leak from the tube and move around inside the carcass to come out at around the base of the valve, don't get fooled)
2. Detatch a small section of backing tape from the tyre carcass at the site of the puncture. (a bigger section creates more work to glue it back later)
3. Cut the stitches holding the carcass together at the site of the puncture, 5cm should be enough.
4. Pull the fine material (silk?) aside to expose the tube
5. Pull a loop of tube out, patch the tube
6. Stuff the tube back in
7. Replace the fine material a best you can
8. Sew the carcass back together
9. Pressure test
10. Glue the backing tape back down.

It is a small hassle but it saves a good tyre. Sealants have their own issues they are ok when they work but if they don't you might as well bin the tyre. If you let the tyre go completely flat there is a chance that sealant will glue the tube to itself which then tears itself apart when you pump it up again.

I prefer repairing tyres, YMMV.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby jcjordan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:33 am

Oltre wrote::x punctured my rear Verdestein Fortezza TriComp Pro tubular tyre. I am guessing that being vulcanised, there's no manual internal repair possible?

The hole is very tiny and I do have a 100mL can of Michelin Stop&Go but never used such a product. Is it tubular compatible (latex inners) and do I dump the whole can in the one tyre via the valve?

Anyone with practical experience? Will this foam sealant be long lasting?

Image

Cheers


From what I have read the sealant pictured is very similar to pitstop. I have found that with pitstop in the tire you have reduced its life span to less than six months before you will blow a sidewall. There is something in the container that's eats the latex inner tube
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby petal665 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:29 pm

ironhanglider wrote:Vulcanisation has nothing to do with repairability.
Rubbish. Corsa CXs have the base tape vulcanised to the casing. Try getting it off, it's next to impossible. It can be done but it's nothing like conti tubular basetape which comes off just looking at it.
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:44 pm

jcjordan wrote:From what I have read the sealant pictured is very similar to pitstop. I have found that with pitstop in the tire you have reduced its life span to less than six months before you will blow a sidewall. There is something in the container that's eats the latex inner tube


If it ate the inner tube, that'd result in a tube failure rather than a failure of the tyre casing one would think?
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby jcjordan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:10 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
jcjordan wrote:From what I have read the sealant pictured is very similar to pitstop. I have found that with pitstop in the tire you have reduced its life span to less than six months before you will blow a sidewall. There is something in the container that's eats the latex inner tube


If it ate the inner tube, that'd result in a tube failure rather than a failure of the tyre casing one would think?


From what I can determine, based only on personal experience, is that once put in the tire you seem to get a sidewall failure at about 5-6 months down the track. Examining the inner tube has always shown some sort of damage that I can't explained from snow externally cause failure.
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby petal665 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:14 pm

I have wheels with tires that have had sealant in them for more than a yea, they have not failed.
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby jcjordan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:25 pm

petal665 wrote:I have wheels with tires that have had sealant in them for more than a yea, they have not failed.


What sort of sealant. I have been using the Tufo with great success and like you no problems. Pitstop seems to be a different type of sealant
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby petal665 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:56 pm

Caffelatex. Used on both Conti butyl tubulars and Vittoria latex tubulars.
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby jcjordan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:03 pm

petal665 wrote:Caffelatex. Used on both Conti butyl tubulars and Vittoria latex tubulars.

Like Tuff it's a liquid with beading rather then foam based sealant.

Seem like the the foaming element might be the route of the problem
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Re: 1st TUBULARS - newbie in need of help...

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:05 pm

petal665 wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:Vulcanisation has nothing to do with repairability.
Rubbish. Corsa CXs have the base tape vulcanised to the casing. Try getting it off, it's next to impossible. It can be done but it's nothing like conti tubular basetape which comes off just looking at it.


Looks like I'm out of date (again). :oops: The last time I bought Corsa CXs (2008) the base tape was glued in the traditional manner (I'm still using them). I was interpreting the 'vulcanisation' as attaching the tread to the casing, as opposed to the latex glue methods used in the hand-made tubulars like FMB/Dugast.

The only other variation I am aware of is the Tufo tubulars which don't have a tube per se, but a layer that is bonded to the inside of the casing. In theory this should work better with sealants since it provides more depth for the sealant to fill up (layer + casing). However I don't know of anyone who rides them.

In the meantime I see from WW that Oltre (E777L) has gone ahead and used the Stop & Go stuff, without great success.

Cheers,

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