Yeah, it's exactly as reported. I sweat my ring out storming home to get 49 minutes, and 60 was no specific effort (didn't engage the big ring without going down a big hill etc). 22kms, there are a few decent hills etc.foo on patrol wrote:You sure you read your watch right?
How far was the distance and and how low a gear were you spinning? It's all relevant to the time but 11mins is a big difference it over a short distance.
Foo
Maintaining higher average speeds?
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:29 pm
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:35 pm
I've been doing some hunting online for free info, sounds like I've got to put a LOT more recovery days into all of this. Probably need to get a few more longer rides in as well to get the threshold effort improvements. I do find it interesting that I've done really well on the Saturday in the past couple weeks and intentionally done a roll home on the Friday. Probably need to incorporate about 4-5 rolling commutes a week amongst the brutal smashfests, but I think adding distance to the big days is going to be necessary to improve speeds overall. Even adding 5-10km would have to be better than nothing.
This is how it begins, isn't it?
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:05 pm
I'm trying to do the same as you actually. I did grab a 3rd on Saturday on one Strava KOM segment which really surprised me, I just couldn't believe how strong I was feeling on that climb. But the next morning I was feeling really flat, just didn't have the energy at all.Xplora wrote:Holy moly, how time flies... pulled out a 280km week over 6 days, pounding out 35kmh on the flats without drama. Actually managed sustained 45-50 on the tribars on the way to the ride this morning. I've had very significant improvement, despite the prang in late July, and I think a lot of the progress is simply coming from pushing big gears as much as possible, and regularly sprinting off from the stops. I definitely need some better recovery strategies though. I don't really have any
Sadly enough, belting myself home takes 49 minutes at best, and I spun home specifically trying to avoid big efforts but maintain speed and I still got home in 60 yesterday. Topped 45kmh as well. I'm doing something wrong here
Sadly that's academic while I wait for the bike to be checked over and repaired after the accident on Sunday. My problem is managing my heart rate and a bit more HTFU. Compared to you, I'm much shorter and 66kg, so you've seem to have an advantage over me already.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Chris249 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:25 pm
The Time Crunched Cyclist by Chris Carmichael can be a good read. But in the end, if you aren't going to do the ks then the results are not going to be the same unless you aim at shorter distances and (in my experience) risk injury. He points out that you have to work as hard recovering as you do training.
PS sustained 45-50 on the tri bars sounds quick!
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:50 pm
Funny you mentioned injury... basically got tendonitis in my right upper back from a few pushups (literally) after a couple days of wet riding. Can't develop good posture and the rest of it when it is wet. Bit of a risk to get too comfy in the pitch black at 30+ on the wet path in the rain. I'm a hardman but I've had one too many prangs this year.Chris249 wrote:PS sustained 45-50 on the tri bars sounds quick!
The tribar speed is easy to achieve when you do it a lot. Really got to pony up and get a different stem to get lower... the Madone H2 geometry isn't racy enough, strangely enough?!
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby foo on patrol » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:13 pm
Foo
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby poohkies » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:41 pm
when i started riding to and from work i thought i was in a race going hard as i could, i was really really starting to hurt, and finding it hard to keep any sort of pace,
I spoke to a mate and started working on my heart rate, i can sit on the 28 - 32 km / h mark at around the 130 - 140 bpm i do this probably 6 out of my 8 rides a week, the other 2 rides i completely kill my self, go as hard a i can, but only do this twice once to work and on an opposite day ride home flat out! which i've been increasing my average buy 1 km each month so far.
I normally do a 60 - 80 km ride on a saturday ride with some mates, that's really just a pedal and saddle time ride, we do do some sprints against each other but it's really my easy ride, and just improving on distance and longer saddle time! I never ride Sunday! and on average am doing around the 220 - 280 km's a week, i've also started to take whey protien when i'm really hurting to help recovery, and noticed my diet intake of food is important to how well i do or don't ride!
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:15 pm
Seems like I might have 3 good hard 20km rides available to me. Got some seriously brutal training in over the past couple of days, but had a couple days off as well which has been great.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby boss » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:27 pm
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:37 am
190... cadence?jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.
You just stopped me from ever competing in a velodrome. Thanks for saving me a lot of time and money Slow twitch muscles etc.... I'm almost falling off the bike at 125
I've been maintaining higher speeds by building strength in the lower cadences. 90rpm halfway up the cassette in the big ring.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Chris249 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:32 am
I suppose it depends on the definition of "sustained"; sustain that over a TT distance and you'll be wearing a national championship jersey!Xplora wrote:Funny you mentioned injury... basically got tendonitis in my right upper back from a few pushups (literally) after a couple days of wet riding. Can't develop good posture and the rest of it when it is wet. Bit of a risk to get too comfy in the pitch black at 30+ on the wet path in the rain. I'm a hardman but I've had one too many prangs this year.Chris249 wrote:PS sustained 45-50 on the tri bars sounds quick!
The tribar speed is easy to achieve when you do it a lot. Really got to pony up and get a different stem to get lower... the Madone H2 geometry isn't racy enough, strangely enough?!
Out of interest, I should fix up the speedos on the TT bike and check the top speed in the aeros; my emphasis on TTs is maintaining a steady speed comfortably over 40 on the flat for 45 minutes or so.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby DoogleDave » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:43 pm
YIKES...190rpm+jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.
If you don't mind, can I ask how you trained your body/legs to sustain that cadence?
Is it just slowly increasing your cadence during training as your body adapts to it or are there other training techniques involved?
Dave
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Milar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:20 pm
I think (and hope) jimboss is talking bpm as in heart rate, not rpm as in cadence.DoogleDave wrote:YIKES...190rpm+jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.
If you don't mind, can I ask how you trained your body/legs to sustain that cadence?
Is it just slowly increasing your cadence during training as your body adapts to it or are there other training techniques involved?
Dave
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:42 pm
Spin the hell out of the pedals, and make sure you allow enough time for recovery between sessions. I've applied the same techniques to death metal drumming. But 190rpm is virtually inhuman... best drummers on the planet max out at 150rpm (beats per minute is twice as fast)... you're spinning the pedal 3 times a second....DoogleDave wrote:YIKES...190rpm+jimboss wrote:I regularly hit 190+. Gotta put work in.
If you don't mind, can I ask how you trained your body/legs to sustain that cadence?
Is it just slowly increasing your cadence during training as your body adapts to it or are there other training techniques involved?
Dave
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby boss » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:23 pm
Max cadence, no idea. I just aim for anything over 100 unless I want to grind.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:03 pm
ahhhhhhhh. Thank God for that. I thought Jet Li had a BNA accountjimboss wrote:Talking BPM guys. Poohkies was talking heart rate, then Xplora quoted 140BPM and I came in and said that I can hold 190+BPM for extended periods.
Max cadence, no idea. I just aim for anything over 100 unless I want to grind.
No idea on my heart rate. I'm thinking about caring more about it if I pick up a HRM and a trainer
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby boss » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:17 pm
**Imagines someone going flat chat and counting their heart beat simultaneously**
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby 15wilsonwu » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:10 pm
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:12 am
Depends on what stage you are in your training!15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby Xplora » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:19 am
What are you good at? I can manage a short blitzkrieg over 45 minutes without much struggle at all... my commute is around 50 minutes long. Been doing it for a year.15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?
Can I manage a 2 hour blitzkrieg? No. I need to build some extra brute horsepower to handle the brutal sprinting that tends to happen in the coffee shop sprint home... so I'm doing a bunch of big ring sprinting to train on my weak spot. Because realistically, I can ride 3 hours at a moderate pace, it's the sprinting that I can't handle. Build the platform, get good at what you aren't good at.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:25 am
Do half a dozen standing starts and sprints in this time and Bob will be your uncle after a couple of months.Xplora wrote:Because realistically, I can ride 3 hours at a moderate pace, it's the sprinting that I can't handle. Build the platform, get good at what you aren't good at.15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby g-boaf » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:02 pm
I'm trying to get faster at the sprinting as well. Like you I can handle longer rides at a measured pace, but keeping up over 40km/h for a long time - I'm not great at that. I'm just doing a lot of runs on my favourite strava segment and pushing as hard as I can on the big ring as you are doing, but you are probably well ahead of me since you commute to work.Xplora wrote:What are you good at? I can manage a short blitzkrieg over 45 minutes without much struggle at all... my commute is around 50 minutes long. Been doing it for a year.15wilsonwu wrote:Wait, so are long endurance rides are better than short high intensity rides?
Can I manage a 2 hour blitzkrieg? No. I need to build some extra brute horsepower to handle the brutal sprinting that tends to happen in the coffee shop sprint home... so I'm doing a bunch of big ring sprinting to train on my weak spot. Because realistically, I can ride 3 hours at a moderate pace, it's the sprinting that I can't handle. Build the platform, get good at what you aren't good at.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby southeastD » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:02 pm
I started doing 30km - 50km runs from Port Melbourne to Moordialloc (Beach Rd:)). My avg speed was about 16km/hr in the first handful of rides, it built up my heart muscle.
I continued to train every weekend (for Around The Bay 2012). I managed to complete 100km ATB with an avg of 24km/h (off my cycle computer). I was stoked
Now I complete Port Melbourne>Moordialloc>Port Melbourne in 28km - 30km/hr avg, depending on how I feel on the morning. I don't ride to work, however once a week, during mid-week, I ride a 500m hill in my area. It is a big hill for me, every time I climb this hill my heart feels like it's going to explode. I climb this hill, then go slowly on the flat for the next couple of milometers to catch my breath. Then I go back down and climb the hill again. I repeat this three times (my legs & heart ache like you wouldn't believe); after the third time I ride away from the hill for about 30km before heading home very sweaty and quite buggered.
This has helped improved my stamina and leg muscle. All up, I ride about 80km-90km every week, I hope to find time to put in more K's to build up more stamina. I aim to do 200km in next years ATB
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby boss » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:40 pm
I am not a strong/big guy (65-70kg, 5 foot 11), and have not done any intervals. Just riding proper big hills as fast as I can, regularly.
I might go for a few sprints once a week on the way home after work. But yeah... Climb, climb, climb (and descend, descend, descend!) for me.
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Re: Maintaining higher average speeds?
Postby poohkies » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:17 pm
doing the velodrome training has really help sprints obviously, but I can hit 54 and that's about it, for about 200metres and i'm screwed, i'm been more concentrating on keeping my average over longer distances, saturdays ride was 82km at and average of 29, kept slowing everyone down as they tend to speed of and at the 50km mark they are screwed, we sat at the 30km/h mark and we maintainted that hte whole ride! was really happy
If you want to improve a heart monitor is a great thing to have, this will also tell you how your fitness is going! on my 80 km ride
i got the following info
z1 - Endurance 0 - 112 04:55
z2 - Moderate 112-148 2:20:41
z3 - Tempo 148-166 26:51
z4 - Threshold 166-184 :22 hit 170bpm
z5 - Anaerobic 184 + 00:00
I'll let your know what my heart rate is like tomorrow after velodrome training! i only do about 15km over 2hours but my god does it hurt!
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