We have had talks with two lots of Liberal Transport Ministers as well as CoPerth nad MainRoadsWA to get separation of cyclists and pedestrians in this segment, suggesting it could legally be funded by the parking levy. (Some background can be found on the BTA website). No luck so far, but we will continue to move the various governement departments towards a safer solution. The current mini-roundabouts should result in some slowing down, and also should give peds a better environment - the roundabouts should have a pedestrian passage through them.Pravda wrote:While I don't in anyway condone the way a lot of people ride along that section of path it is a bloody stupid place to have the shared path link up given the number of passengers who get off the train at City West. A long-term solution would be to move it completely or separate the peds and cyclists however I don't see that happening any time soon.
city west path & othertaking
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby CycleSnail » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:40 pm
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby rolandp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:00 pm
Wonder if the cross-walk will remain?
I did contact MainRoads earlier this week asking what was being installed, and where were the diversions going which were indicated in the installed signs. Only got general response back 'You enquiry is important to us ....'
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby CycleSnail » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:06 pm
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby orbeas » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:12 pm
Orbea Erandio Hybrid
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby Baalzamon » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:14 pm
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby CycleSnail » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:21 pm
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby rolandp » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:27 am
I can confirm that work has started on site today, Monday 11th November. The work should take a maximum of 6 weeks.
The diversions are required due to certain construction operations at certain times of the day. The diversions will be along Delhi Street and Campbell Street if needed.
These works are designed to improve the safety of all users along the PSP with improved crossing points for pedestrians accessing the City West railway station.
If you have any further comments or questions please don’t hesitate to contact me.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby dougalh » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:08 pm
The islands probably won't do much as from teh picture it doesn't look like it's much of a detour.
+1 to this!!!!orbeas wrote: Build a bridge over the cross walk?
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby CycleSnail » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:08 pm
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:09 pm
I wonder to if there is enough "bend" to actually do anything more than encourage taking on the chicane.CycleSnail wrote:Looks like theslow point is taking shape, but it seems that dyslexic cyclists will not benefit
Andrew
Aushiker.com
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby Thoglette » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:56 pm
It works well at West Leedervilleorbeas wrote: Build a bridge over the cross walk?
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:28 pm
Perhaps, though at will certainly reduce doubel and triople passing at whatever speed. And that will at least affect some.Aushiker wrote:I wonder to if there is enough "bend" to actually do anything more than encourage taking on the chicane.CycleSnail wrote:Looks like theslow point is taking shape, but it seems that dyslexic cyclists will not benefit
Andrew
There is never a perfect answer though - how do you stop stupidity? How do you stop impatience? ahow do you stop selfishness. All are hard to do.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby eldavo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:11 pm
PTA CCTV of the crossings should be better popcorn footage than ever before.
There are no limits to stupidity especially with adrenalin red mist by those who aren't used to being stupid most of the time and can't really do it well. One in mind recently was uphill northbound prior to Hutton overpass, 5kph slower than normal on fat tyred MTB, but still in a decent climb pace and guy behind on roadie must have got his/my pace wrong locks up brakes into back of me/front of pedestrian walking downhill trying to split us at the moment we're side by side. Pedestrian said take it easy mate to the guy. I later realised why he was riding daft, because another bloke with the same jersey was up ahead he was trying to get back up to draft with. I saw them umbilical joined at Karrinyup Rd. later. Potential for stupidity seems to square for every alike jersey in the vicinity.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby orbeas » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:48 pm
+1 your making common sence, gov departments lack itThoglette wrote:It works well at West Leedervilleorbeas wrote: Build a bridge over the cross walk?
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby Thoglette » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:54 pm
Nor to temptationeldavo wrote:There are no limits to stupidity
(Thanks to the BTA)
I was thinking exactly the same thing last night but behaved myself.
500m earlier I had been sorely tempted take the "event ahead" sign blocking the PSP at City West and hurl it over the fence!
Oh, nor to optimism. I love the "cyclists dismount" signs.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby wagr1213 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:38 pm
This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.
This is just silly!
Oh well the entertainment should be good.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:57 pm
I am not at all sure that you can make a statement like that without making at least an equally strong attack on cyclists.wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.
This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.
This is just silly!
Yes there are vacant dreamy peds. But there is no shortage of grossly poor riders in a hurry either. Indeed, if all riders would obey the signage and markings, drop their speed for a short time and resist the urge to pass others at this point these works would not be necessary.
A better solution could be an overpass. But, playing devil's advocate, a ped could ask why they should have to have that imposed on them while cyclists get a clear run.
There is never going to be a perfect solution because of our (cyclists and peds) shortcomings. I suspect that this solution will be quite effective but there will still be some accidents. Overall I expect both cyclists and peds to be somewhat better off.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:19 pm
What was that in the previous post about not being able to stop stupidity? Good example right here.wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.
This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.
This is just silly!
Oh well the entertainment should be good.
It's a pedestrian crossing. Formally marked with signs & zebra markings. Cyclists are required to give way to pedestrians using the crossing. Pedestrians leaving the station are perfectly entitled to use the crossing, walking 'in front of cyclists', given that cyclists are required to give way. There is no 'swerve and avoid' if you are travelling at the appropriate speed - just 'stop or slow and give way'.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:24 pm
That's the obvious solution, however that $2m-$3m (more?) comes out of the cycling budget and comes at the expense of:orbeas wrote: Build a bridge over the cross walk?
- Bassendean to Lord Street extension
- PSP through Guildford to Midland
- PSP deviation from Glendalough to Hutton St
and so on.
Really, I think it should come out of the black spot or safer roads funding streams rather than the WABN funding but obviously such hasn't been successful yet.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby wagr1213 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:33 pm
The only stupidity here is your response - you missed the point! People will still do what they do now.wellington_street wrote:What was that in the previous post about not being able to stop stupidity? Good example right here.wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.
This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.
This is just silly!
Oh well the entertainment should be good.
It's a pedestrian crossing. Formally marked with signs & zebra markings. Cyclists are required to give way to pedestrians using the crossing. Pedestrians leaving the station are perfectly entitled to use the crossing, walking 'in front of cyclists', given that cyclists are required to give way. There is no 'swerve and avoid' if you are travelling at the appropriate speed - just 'stop or slow and give way'.
Nothing has Changed with these works, other than to worsen an already bad situation because as has been pointed out there are still the cycle idiots who will still 'swerve and avoid' the crossing peds and try to navigate this abomination at speed to the further detriment of others.
They should have opened up the space and removed the blind spots or as at West Leederville created a better environment.
I rarely use use this cycleway as it is a bit out of my ride areas - but as I regularly stop at City West and dispense the sheep into the path of the wolves, I get to see what some of these idiots do and so now the viewing will just get more entertaining.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:19 pm
A police presence during the commuting peaks would definitely assist in reigning in some of these idiots.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby redned » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:55 pm
I don't think I have ever seen a driver give way to pedestrians on marked crossings on slip lanes. They are always focussed on the approaching traffic to check the light cycle to see if they can proceed. Signs and road marking are apparently not sufficient visual triggers for the unthinking driver.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby uglybob » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:02 pm
unfortunately you'll always get people on bikes through there that no matter what you do, will always be dicks.redned wrote:Maybe (he says optimistically) it will be more of a visual signal to cyclists that they need to do something apart from steam through. Maybe a marked pedestrian crossing isn't enough of a visual trigger for the unthinking cyclist. The lunatic cyclist might still steam through.
I don't think I have ever seen a driver give way to pedestrians on marked crossings on slip lanes. They are always focussed on the approaching traffic to check the light cycle to see if they can proceed. Signs and road marking are apparently not sufficient visual triggers for the unthinking driver.
before the works were done, you could be stopped with a few other cyclists at the crossings, with peds having got off a train streaming over the paths, and people would still be forcing their way though. it couldn't be more obvious that they needed to stop, yet they'll ride down like they're the only people in the world
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:40 am
Steady on - wellington's post was fine. He was jut reminding us of the oft-ignored obligations of some of the users.wagr1213 wrote:The only stupidity here is your response - you missed the point! People will still do what they do now.wellington_street wrote:What was that in the previous post about not being able to stop stupidity? Good example right here.wagr1213 wrote:Surely they cant be serious with this arrangement.
This will only cause more accidents - The sheep leaving the station are still sheep so they will continue to walk out in front of cyclists and now there will be even less space to swerve and avoid.
This is just silly!
Oh well the entertainment should be good.
It's a pedestrian crossing. Formally marked with signs & zebra markings. Cyclists are required to give way to pedestrians using the crossing. Pedestrians leaving the station are perfectly entitled to use the crossing, walking 'in front of cyclists', given that cyclists are required to give way. There is no 'swerve and avoid' if you are travelling at the appropriate speed - just 'stop or slow and give way'.
...
After becoming aware of this trouble spot the very next time that I rode this section I reflected on how it difficult it would be for a cyclist to approach this point without being aware of the hazard coming up.
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Re: city west path & othertaking
Postby eldavo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:19 pm
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