Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby boss » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:52 am

Hi all,

Looking to upgrade from Mavic Aksium Race's to a lighter wheelset. Initially I was tempted by RS80 C24's, but then came along the DA 7900 C24's. They're only a couple hundred dollars more expensive, and a bit lighter, so they've piqued my interest.

The one concern I have is longevity and durability.

Both wheels have the same rim, different hubs though. I've read and been told directly on here that the RS80's are good for all-round duties (commuting, training, racing) so I assume that the rim will be fine on the DA rim.

That leaves the hub - anyone here had experience with them for all round duties?

Cheers,

James
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by BNA » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:02 pm

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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby Fixie82 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:02 pm

I have been riding the C50's, not the same rim but is the same hub and a riding buddy has been on the C24's. Both of us have not had any issues, in saying this Shimano hubs to require a little more maintenance than systems that use sealed bearing units, so its best to keep on top of it and check the cup and cones every so often for excess play. Its really pretty easy to do once you are aware of it and know what you are doing. I find these hubs are some of the best rolling I have had.

I have ridden them through all sorts of weather and are on my bike more often than not, even being tubulars and the hubs havent missed a beat or needed any type of major service. My buddies C24's were on his ride as a full time wheelset and were only recently changed out due to wanting to try something different. He's a big bloke and never even needed to get the trued.

If you can spend the extra $$$ I would wholeheartedly recommend the Dura Ace versions
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby boss » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:06 pm

Thanks! Sweet. That's the other thing I forgot to mention. I'm an all-weather rider, so that comes into the mix too.

And checking the hubs for play from time to time shouldn't be an issue.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby biker jk » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:57 pm

The small 121g difference in the weight of the RS80 versus the Dura-Ace c24 is all in the hubs, so not rotating mass. But the price difference is around three hundred dollars. While the rims are the same weight (around 390g) the carbon finish on the Dura-Ace wheels is better. The silver spokes on the RS80s do have a tendency to develop some surface rust versus the black spokes on the Dura-Ace wheels.

The Shimano front wheel is very stiff thanks the the 80mm flange width which is better than just about every other hub out there.

Shimano cup and cone hubs with loose ball bearings are easy to service and the seals are often better than those hubs using cartridge bearings. It's not a question of checking for play but removing the cones and checking that the grease is adequate and the balls are damaged or cones pitted. You will need some cone spanners.

Oh, and the rims are damn strong (don't ask how I know). :lol:
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby Ross » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:13 pm

I've done about 13000km so far on my DA 7900 C24s and they are as good as the day I put them on.
A mate has two bikes, one has the RS80 C24 and the other has DA C24s and he has had them both for about 6 months and they are both going well without any dramas.
If you have a choice, can afford them and can find them (7900 C24s are a bit hard to find now, Cycling Express seems to currently have the best deal on the new 9000 series) then buy the DA version.
They only come with minimal grease from the factory so best to give them a greae before putting them on your bike.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby boss » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:32 am

Thanks guys. I have to keep holding myself back from hitting buy right now, I want to keep a bit of cash loose in case of unforseen Christmas expenditures. CRC have had some pretty good coupon codes for bigger purchases, fingers crossed a few are going around after X-mas!

Will definitely go the DA's though.

7900's seem to be available O/S still, my group is Ultegra 6700 so I need the 7900's. Well - at least CRC says 9000 is 11spd only, CE say it is 10/11spd. Either way, I'd rather save the $200 and get the 7900s :)

Cheers!
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby biker jk » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:45 am

jimboss wrote:Thanks guys. I have to keep holding myself back from hitting buy right now, I want to keep a bit of cash loose in case of unforseen Christmas expenditures. CRC have had some pretty good coupon codes for bigger purchases, fingers crossed a few are going around after X-mas!

Will definitely go the DA's though.

7900's seem to be available O/S still, my group is Ultegra 6700 so I need the 7900's. Well - at least CRC says 9000 is 11spd only, CE say it is 10/11spd. Either way, I'd rather save the $200 and get the 7900s :)

Cheers!


9000 C24 is 10-speed compatible with the supplied 1.85 mm spacer.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby boss » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:01 am

Sweet. Thanks mate. Will consider going down that path if I can't source a 7900 in January.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby Byke » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:50 pm

What's Cycling Express charging for the 9000s wheelset at the moment? (Their site seems to be having some serious issues at present)

With the current coupon (expires at 11am on Friday) the 7900 wheelset at Chain Reaction is $669 delivered.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby boss » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:56 am

Byke wrote:What's Cycling Express charging for the 9000s wheelset at the moment? (Their site seems to be having some serious issues at present)

With the current coupon (expires at 11am on Friday) the 7900 wheelset at Chain Reaction is $669 delivered.


$999 from memory, $960ish from CRC
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby kokoman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:17 pm

bummer CRC is showing out of stock.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby biker jk » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:30 pm

kokoman wrote:bummer CRC is showing out of stock.



Even cheaper from Merlin Cycles UK. $788.06 delivered. In stock.

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/wheels/road-wheels/factory-road-wheels/shimano-dura-ace-9000-c24-wheels-pair.html
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby boss » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:53 pm

biker jk wrote:
kokoman wrote:bummer CRC is showing out of stock.



Even cheaper from Merlin Cycles UK. $788.06 delivered. In stock.

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/wheels/road-wheels/factory-road-wheels/shimano-dura-ace-9000-c24-wheels-pair.html


That's absurdly cheap for the 9000's.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby biker jk » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:01 pm

jimboss wrote:
biker jk wrote:
kokoman wrote:bummer CRC is showing out of stock.



Even cheaper from Merlin Cycles UK. $788.06 delivered. In stock.

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/wheels/road-wheels/factory-road-wheels/shimano-dura-ace-9000-c24-wheels-pair.html


That's absurdly cheap for the 9000's.


Well I would argue the 7900s are a better wheel and shouldn't sell for much, if any, a discount to the 9000s. The older version has nicer hubs (silver versus black) and a better bracing angle for the drive side spokes (11s means the drive side flange needs to move to the left). 9000s rims are slightly lighter.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby boss » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:20 pm

biker jk wrote:
jimboss wrote:


That's absurdly cheap for the 9000's.


Well I would argue the 7900s are a better wheel and shouldn't sell for much, if any, a discount to the 9000s. The older version has nicer hubs (silver versus black) and a better bracing angle for the drive side spokes (11s means the drive side flange needs to move to the left). 9000s rims are slightly lighter.


7900's were going for $760 at CRC prior to selling out. They also were running $100 off over $699, so they were $660. I think 9000's are still in stock there for $950-ish.

Black hub would be my preference but I don't have 11spd DA, so the bracing angle issue is of a concern.

If I can't get 7900's when it comes time to buy (approx 3-4 weeks) it'll have to be 9000's.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby usernameforme » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:55 pm

biker jk wrote:Well I would argue the 7900s are a better wheel and shouldn't sell for much, if any, a discount to the 9000s. The older version has nicer hubs (silver versus black) and a better bracing angle for the drive side spokes (11s means the drive side flange needs to move to the left). 9000s rims are slightly lighter.


The bracing angle is offset by the triplet lacing pattern, the spoke tension distribution should still be the same/similar to the 7900
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby antipodean » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:15 pm

usernameforme wrote:
The bracing angle is offset by the triplet lacing pattern, the spoke tension distribution should still be the same/similar to the 7900


Shouldn't 15 year old's be out chasing girls or something not pretending they know everything there is to know about bicycle wheels?
Btw your Weight Weenies username is as bad as this one :roll:
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby usernameforme » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:22 pm

antipodean wrote:
usernameforme wrote:
The bracing angle is offset by the triplet lacing pattern, the spoke tension distribution should still be the same/similar to the 7900


Shouldn't 15 year old's be out chasing girls or something not pretending they know everything there is to know about bicycle wheels?
Btw your Weight Weenies username is as bad as this one :roll:


Well it was so bad I didn't need to put a number in front of it :lol:

What have you got against me antipodean? This is a forum, where we discuss viewpoints and opinions, I feel that I am just as obliged to share mine as you are to share yours. If I don't know what I am talking about, please tell me where I am wrong so you can aid the discussion instead of making me feel insecure :wink:
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby biker jk » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:23 pm

usernameforme wrote:
biker jk wrote:Well I would argue the 7900s are a better wheel and shouldn't sell for much, if any, a discount to the 9000s. The older version has nicer hubs (silver versus black) and a better bracing angle for the drive side spokes (11s means the drive side flange needs to move to the left). 9000s rims are slightly lighter.


The bracing angle is offset by the triplet lacing pattern, the spoke tension distribution should still be the same/similar to the 7900


Well not for the first time you're wrong. The 9000 C24 doesn't have 2:1 rear lacing. The C35, C50 and C75 do. Even so, these wheels with 2:1 rear lacing have only 7 non-drive side spokes radially laced so if you break one of these spokes the wheel will go very out of true. Swings and roundabouts. The 7900 C24 is a better wheel than the 9000 C24 because of a better bracing angle on the rear drive side.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby usernameforme » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:50 pm

biker jk wrote:The 9000 C24 doesn't have 2:1 rear lacing.


I stand corrected... I wonder why Shimano didn't give the c24 triplet, are they suggesting the rim is not stiff enough for it?

biker jk wrote:Even so, these wheels with 2:1 rear lacing have only 7 non-drive side spokes radially laced so if you break one of these spokes the wheel will go very out of true.


Wouldn't the rim go very out of true anyway because they are only using 20 or 21 spokes? Alternatively, wouldn't the rear wheel go out of true less if you break a DS spoke?
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby biker jk » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:48 pm

usernameforme wrote:
biker jk wrote:The 9000 C24 doesn't have 2:1 rear lacing.


I stand corrected... I wonder why Shimano didn't give the c24 triplet, are they suggesting the rim is not stiff enough for it?

biker jk wrote:Even so, these wheels with 2:1 rear lacing have only 7 non-drive side spokes radially laced so if you break one of these spokes the wheel will go very out of true.


Wouldn't the rim go very out of true anyway because they are only using 20 or 21 spokes? Alternatively, wouldn't the rear wheel go out of true less if you break a DS spoke?


That's why I referred to swings and roundabouts. The 2:1 rear uses seven drive side spokes at higher tension to offset the drive side flange gap being reduced (smaller bracing angle) so that the ND to D side tension balance doesn't worsen. So if one of those seven spokes breaks then the wheel will be in worse shape than having 10 spokes and both sides. So you can argue that the better tension in the ND will reduce the likelihood of the spokes breaking due to insufficient tension but if they do break you're in big trouble. There's also an argument that with radial lacing the spoke exits the nipple at 180 deg and so is more likely to loosen versus say two cross which imparts a small angle on the spoke thread entering the nipple. Again, this is presumably offset by the higher tension reducing the likelihood of the spoke losing tension.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby warthog1 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:04 am

usernameforme wrote:
What have you got against me antipodean? This is a forum, where we discuss viewpoints and opinions, I feel that I am just as obliged to share mine as you are to share yours. If I don't know what I am talking about, please tell me where I am wrong so you can aid the discussion instead of making me feel insecure :wink:


Possibly because of comments like those in this thread http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=58322&start=25 where you discussed a wheel set without having direct experience of it, in contradiction of the general consensus based on actual experience of having used the wheel set.
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby usernameforme » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:19 pm

warthog1 wrote:where you discussed a wheel set without having direct experience of it, in contradiction of the general consensus based on actual experience of having used the wheel set.


I'm just skeptical about it because from what I know, its a compromised design... I'm wrong and everyone is right :wink:


Getting back on topic...Anyone know what the new flange spacings are for the 9000 c24? I have a suspicion that Shimano have just moved both flanges 1(or however many mm) to the NDS (resulting in a higher NDS bracing angle), wouldn't this make for a stiffer wheel, at the expense of lower NDS tension? Or have Shimano just made the flanges 1(or however many mm) narrower?
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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby Marty Moose » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:41 pm

I've got both rs80 and 7900 c24s.. Both are awesome.I train on the rs's they are bomb proof stiff and reliable. I think the dura ace are faster but the tyres I use are lighter and they cost more so they must be faster :) I would not hesitate to buy either of them again. I paid just over 600 for the dura ace and the rs80's were on my bike.

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Re: Shimano RS80 C24 VS Dura Ace 7900 C24

Postby 15wilsonwu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:18 pm

usernameforme wrote:
antipodean wrote:
usernameforme wrote:
The bracing angle is offset by the triplet lacing pattern, the spoke tension distribution should still be the same/similar to the 7900


Shouldn't 15 year old's be out chasing girls or something not pretending they know everything there is to know about bicycle wheels?
Btw your Weight Weenies username is as bad as this one :roll:


Well it was so bad I didn't need to put a number in front of it :lol:

What have you got against me antipodean? This is a forum, where we discuss viewpoints and opinions, I feel that I am just as obliged to share mine as you are to share yours. If I don't know what I am talking about, please tell me where I am wrong so you can aid the discussion instead of making me feel insecure :wink:


usernameforme is actually quite knowledgable regarding bicycle wheels. He helped me a lot when I tried out custom building my own wheelset.
Instead of calling people 15 year olds, stop being one antipodean. :|
Unless of course if unsernameforme is actually 15 :lol:
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