Surly Troll Rohloff build
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:55 pm
Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby alexf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:25 pm
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:55 pm
Which spokes for Rohloff OEM2 (non disc, internal gear mech)
Postby alexf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:34 pm
I wonder whether @il padrone can weigh in and say which length spokes he used for his build? In any case I will use the DT Swiss competition spokes which bike24 has. In the worst case scenario I will buy spokes from Cheeky Monkey in Newtown/get them to build the wheel for me if they are willing.
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:55 pm
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby alexf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:05 pm
- il padrone
- Posts: 22931
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
- Location: Heading for home.
Re: Which spokes for Rohloff OEM2 (non disc, internal gear m
Postby il padrone » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:24 pm
I don't know what length they are. I let my reliable LBS do the wheel build for mealexf wrote:I wonder whether @il padrone can weigh in and say which length spokes he used for his build?
BTW I see very little need for the 36 spoke Rohloff unless you are building for a tandem, or weigh >100kg. The symetric dish of a Rohloff makes for a much stronger wheel to start with and 32 are plenty strong enough. It is the recommendation of Thorn for their Nomad expedition tourer and so far I have had no spoke worries.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:55 pm
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby alexf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:13 pm
Well, I figured since it's available in 36 hole, I might as well get them in the 36 option. Although, doing so means forgoing the Andra 30 drilling for rohloff, I think. I shot sjscycles a question on that, yet to receive a reply.
-
- Posts: 5470
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:23 pm
- Location: Yangebup
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby Baalzamon » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:49 pm
btw I was 110kg for the rohloff.
- il padrone
- Posts: 22931
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
- Location: Heading for home.
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby il padrone » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:20 pm
At the moment I'm not carrying any spares. You see, despite carrying spares for the old tourer for many years, I have not broken a spoke since pre-1993. I did break a spoke once on the road bike, but it turned out that was the first of a series all due to a bad batch of spokes used in a wheel-build that had corrosive fractures. Got both the wheels completely rebuilt for free . In my experience a well-built wheel with stainless steel spokes (of suitable gauge) does not break spokes. I have gone through rims quicker than spokes.alexf wrote:Thanks. What size are the spare spokes you carry?
The Rohloff with a symmetrical wheel is going to be even less likely to break spokes.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
- RonK
- Posts: 11508
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
- Location: If you need to know, ask me
- Contact:
Re: Which spokes for Rohloff OEM2 (non disc, internal gear m
Postby RonK » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:32 pm
Well il padrone can't - but I can. You are quite right - I used 238mm Sapim Race spokes to build my Rohloff/32 hole Andra wheel.alexf wrote:I wonder whether @il padrone can weigh in and say which length spokes he used for his build? In any case I will use the DT Swiss competition spokes which bike24 has. In the worst case scenario I will buy spokes from Cheeky Monkey in Newtown/get them to build the wheel for me if they are willing.
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:55 pm
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby alexf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:52 pm
Excellent, I think I will be safe with the 234mm then for the 36 hole, if anyone is interested, this was the reply from sjs regarding andra rohloff drillings: "There is no 36h Rohloff specific Andra rim. When building in a 36h pattern the spokes don’t enter the rim at such an angle as with 32h so there is no need."
Hmm... now 32 hole vs 36 hole... this is another can of worms which I have totally not considered...
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:49 pm
Gotta link AlexF? I cant see their Troll frameset page. Shame their Ogre prices arent reflected as cheaply.alexf wrote:I am about to embark on building two Surly Trolls for touring, and thought I would document/ask questions about the build here. They will be Rohloff equipped and have front disc brakes, and not too dissimilar to other Surly Troll builds. Bikewagon has the cheapest Surly Troll (~$460 shipped) so I've ordered a 18" from them. The next step is to get the hub + spokes + rim...
Why that choice of rim if your going for disk brakes? I understood the attraction for the carbide coating they offer for rim brakes but not for disks.
Also I found Starbike (a month ago) had the best price for Rohloff and my cross country, disk braked and oem2 mounted version with the external gear change came in at a smidgeon under the GST threshold and suffered no customs fee.
When I ordered I dont think Bike24 offered the 36H version which was another reason of trying to buy via Starbike which had perviously denied Aussie sales.
Cheers
Aidan
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:55 pm
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby alexf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:11 pm
Bikewagon seems to be having issues with supply of the Troll 18", but the 20" is here. They also have a 10% off code, MERRY10 valid till 25/12.
I am not planning on using disc brakes at the back anymore, thus the choice of rim.
- RonK
- Posts: 11508
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
- Location: If you need to know, ask me
- Contact:
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby RonK » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:05 pm
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:13 pm
Sorry Ron, (not really as you've gotten me too many times now its my turn LOL )RonK wrote:You won't need/can't use the OEM2 axle plate on the Ogre, which has horizontal dropouts. The OEM plate will work fine.
Unless the Surly web page blurb is wrong:
"a dedicated anchoring point for a Rohloff OEM2 axle plate."
http://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
4th paragraph down.
and the Troll:
"There’s a dedicated area for anchoring a Rohloff hub OEM2 axle plate, and we’ve included threaded M10 x 1mm holes for installing Surly trailer-mounting nuts or B.O.B. Nutz."
http://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3rd paragraph down
Gotta admit you had me passing a brick there for a minute though as it was the OEM2 mount that I ordered/received.
Whoops - no it wasnt - I got the OEM (1) and not the version 2
- il padrone
- Posts: 22931
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
- Location: Heading for home.
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby il padrone » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:45 pm
RonK is right on one count - you don't need the OEM2 plate.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:51 pm
Oh all right, steal my thunder why dont chail padrone wrote:Surly really seem to like to have double-redundancy in their frames
RonK is right on one count - you don't need the OEM2 plate.
Whats the essential difference between the two mounts (OEM).
If you missed my post elsewhere I managed to grab off ebay a long torque arm kit to give me more
flexibility in frame choices with my hub.
I think I've grasped the difference between the Oem2 and the torque arm set up but have yet to look at the
Oem1.
- il padrone
- Posts: 22931
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
- Location: Heading for home.
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby il padrone » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:08 pm
OEM2 axle-plate - crescent-shaped hollow sits against disc-brake mount
Both are available as either a QR fitting or as a solid axle end.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:25 pm
Just realised I've the OEM and not the OEM2 like I thought. - Glad I asked.
I think I can now see what people were talking about regarding complications with removing the rear wheel
for puncture repair with the Surlys.
But you suggest the OEM (1) should work fine?
A very quick squiz at starbike suggests they don't offer a complete hub with Oem2 so that clears that up (I think).
They do sell the Oem2 plate as an extra though for 21.50 € http://www.starbike.com/p/Rohloff-Axle-plate-2481-en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- il padrone
- Posts: 22931
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
- Location: Heading for home.
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby il padrone » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:44 pm
OEM2 may be a more trouble-free choice.
Incidentally these rear-facing slots are one of the prime reasons that rear wheel removal and fitting will be more tricky with the Ogre/Troll. My Nomad has less fussy vertical drop-outs, combined with an eccentric bottom bracket to accommodate the chain elongation.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:10 pm
- RonK
- Posts: 11508
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
- Location: If you need to know, ask me
- Contact:
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby RonK » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:27 pm
For an OEM2 plate to work the locating point would also have to be slotted. Perhaps it is.
No doubt the Surly frames are versatile, but they also incur inconvenient compromises.
Given a choice between a Surly and a Thorn, I'd have to choose to put up with the prickly Robin.
- il padrone
- Posts: 22931
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
- Location: Heading for home.
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby il padrone » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:39 pm
The Ogre has slotted mounts for the disc brake so this is not an issue.RonK wrote:For an OEM2 plate to work the locating point would also have to be slotted.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:40 pm
Its always a balance I guess. The other attractive (to me) frames come at a price premium and dont offer disk brakesRonK wrote:I had to buy the OEM2 plate separately for my Pioneer, which has short vertical dropouts, no disc brakes, and a uses an eccentric bottom bracket for chain adjustment. The Van Nicholas dropouts have a built-in fixing point for the cap head bolt which is provided with the OEM2 plate.
For an OEM2 plate to work the locating point would also have to be slotted.
No doubt the Surly frames are versatile, but they also incur inconvenient compromises.
or if they do its at the cost of some ability to utilise racks and fenders. I've looked at both the Pioneer and the Nomad and appreciate their strengths. I also appreciate the Surly's versatility for a relatively budget price by comparison. Swings and roundabouts. Still if there was a perfect frame I guess we'd all be riding the same bike.
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:44 pm
Not leaving you out here Alexf, how bout some of the reasoning that determined your frame choice?alexf wrote:I am about to embark on building two Surly Trolls for touring, and thought I would document/ask questions about the build here. They will be Rohloff equipped and have front disc brakes, and not too dissimilar to other Surly Troll builds. Bikewagon has the cheapest Surly Troll (~$460 shipped) so I've ordered a 18" from them. The next step is to get the hub + spokes + rim...
Oh and we want to see lots of pics of your build too - start, during and completion
- RonK
- Posts: 11508
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
- Location: If you need to know, ask me
- Contact:
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby RonK » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:45 pm
Rohloff-specific frames are inevitably more expensive - the market is much smaller. But for the extra money you get custom dropouts, eccentric bb's and dedicated cable routing.
- rifraf
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
- Location: Two Rocks, WA
Re: Surly Troll Rohloff build
Postby rifraf » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:19 pm
Hmmmmmm disk brakes over ratedRonK wrote:You overrate the value of disc brakes, and overlook some of the consequences, such having to dish the front wheel, not at desirable for a load carrying wheel.
Rohloff-specific frames are inevitably more expensive - the market is much smaller. But for the extra money you get custom dropouts, eccentric bb's and dedicated cable routing.
Perhaps, but I'm only in my mid 40's and am retro grouch about most of my other gear so am prepared to move on with these.
As Shimano, last I'd looked, had done away with XTR V-brakes and changed the XT to SLX level equivalent in design, I dont think its just a matter of overrating the disks but somewhat of moving with the times. It seems obvious that the technological leaps are going to be aimed at disk technology and not V-brakes "IF" I'm not entirely mistaken.
As for the front wheel, I'll just have to take as many of your load lightening tips on board as I can bare
Load baring dished rear wheels have been around for as long as free hubs and managed many a mile so while I think symmetrical hub flanges do indeed have advantages, its not the be all and end all (I hope ).
Return to “Touring Bikes and Equipment”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.