blkmcs wrote:ColinOldnCranky wrote:Without ever being a group or elite rider I accept that there is a genuine need for those fast riders to be there. This seems to be at odds with other (the majority?) here who seem to subscribe to the belief that they just should not be riding fast or in groups.
I need to make te point of clarity that I originally sated too - when I talk "groups" I differentiate between those loose packs of randoms that come together and disperse constantly - they are the ones that I find dangerous. Those that appear to be organised I treat and assess differently. The "bad" riders I refer to are usually in singles of pairs or in those loose packs. The organised ones I find hold consistent lines and are very predictable.
saying that the path is NOT for them looks a lot to me like peds who believe that cyclists also do not belong on "their" paths. Why does everyone believe that their particular need is the one and only one that needs to be accomodated?
....
Surely this thread is about those groups that ride dangerously not those that ride responsibly.
You seem to be lucky Colin in that you never have problems with groups riding badly, I have two friends who have been knocked off their bikes by group riders, in neither case did the group stop to check on the fallen riders. I have stopped riding before 9:00 a.m. as I constantly came into contact with reckless groups riding two and three abreast.
I don't think anyone is claiming that only their needs should be accommodated only that dangerous riding should be stamped out.
I may be lucky indeed, as there are sure to be other places that the dangers are real and substantial. But within the subset of my riding times on my familiar route my observations are as extensive as anyone else who uses the Kwinana Freeway PSP and far and away too many to countenance them being a statistical aberration.
I *CANNOT* claim that what I see on the Como stretch is the same everywhere. Others may have different experiences elsewhere or on the same stretch at different times.
But, on the Kwinana PSP at busy times, primarily on the way to work in the morning, I have little concern for group rides over and above others and find them highly predictable in line and behaviour. I *DO* see a fair share of people riding against me shaking fists or otherwise signalling the wrongness of them when there is NO realistic threat in them and oftimes seems a little pedantic and less about an unsafe situation.
I *DO* get a rider or more every single day that does do something stupid but it is seldom someone in a group ride.
I *DO* have an issue with those speeding along the the Esplanade RSP. Every forkin day! Slice and dice mostly.
I acknowledge that accidents at speed are inherently more dangerous - the outcomes are going to be more severe.
I *CANNOT* vouch that group rides and faster riders are not an issue on other paths.
I *DO* think that the Kwinana PSP does need to be bought up to spec as there is still an element of unneccesary risk by and to a range of riders good and bad along that stretch.
and I am unwilling to take away the joy and satisfaction that large numbers of riders get even though it is not the sort f riding that I do.
btw I have raised elsewhere and before this thread that the quality of rider went south with increased traffic in the last month or so. I am NOT saying that riding out there is safe and that there is no stupid riding but I seem to see a different problem than many.
7 fattie
) but many groups are just loose associations of riders who meet and then ride/train together (or even form into a group along the path by accumulating riders as they go). These groups do not have group leaders, ergo they are not led. So the sole purpose seems to be to ride fast together, with nobody taking accountability for safety of themselves or other users of the infrastructure.
