Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

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Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby Bobbybobson » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:40 am

Hi everyone.
I just picked up this chain ring (44t) off ebay. Seller claims it is a genuine Sugino 75. However, I'm not 100% convinced but don't have enough knowledge of them to be certain so I thought I'd post up a few pics and see what everyone else thinks.

Whole chain ring:
Image

Stamping:
Image

Burs on arms. These burs are always on the same side of each arm but not the other.
Burs:
Image
Image
No burs:
Image

Teeth profile:
Image

Thanks.
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by BNA » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:43 pm

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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby open roader » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:43 pm

Around 2 years ago I helped my LBS guy close his business with me photographing hundreds of floor stock items which he sold online. I distinctly remember photographing 10 or 12 Sugino individual 75 series rings of various tooth counts (these were the coloured anodised rings) They had different crank bolt tabs, with very nicely rounded edges and a lot less overlap from the bolt hole to the end of the tab (see knock up image below). The stamps were also much closer to the bolt tabs rather than equidistant between tabs like your ring here.

I stress that I only handled a half box of the Sugino 75 coloured anodised rings but I might farly assume these all are all cut from the same pattern? Def. no rough finish burs on the anodised jobbies - I wish I still had the stock photos.........

Image
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby jools » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Looks a bit different to this one:

http://www.tracksupermarket.com/index.p ... cts_id=291
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby RonK » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:23 pm

What - you mean somebody would be bothered to counterfeit a low value item like a chainring? Astonishing!
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby Bobbybobson » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:06 pm

Thanks open roader and jules. Looking at that photo from tracksupermarket made me realise that mine doesn't have the NJS stamp either: A pretty obvious give away.
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:26 pm

RonK wrote:What - you mean somebody would be bothered to counterfeit a low value item like a chainring? Astonishing!


You'd be amazed what people will copy.
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby Bobbybobson » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:29 pm

I should also add that I just did some googling and found that Sugino 75's are only 144BCD and only come in 1/8" (this is right, yes?)
Mine is 130BCD and 3/32". Dead giveaway. Silly me should have researched more before buying. Lucky thing I used PayPal and the seller is stupid enough to claim out-rightly that they're genuine.
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby open roader » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:36 pm

Bobbybobson wrote:I should also add that I just did some googling and found that Sugino 75's are only 144BCD and only come in 1/8" (this is right, yes?)
Mine is 130BCD and 3/32". Dead giveaway. Silly me should have researched more before buying. Lucky thing I used PayPal and the seller is stupid enough to claim out-rightly that they're genuine.


For what it's worth I googled images of anodised Sugino 75 series rings and also note that the bolt hole margins are nicely countersunk which is something I do remember to be true of the stock I handled............
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby Bobbybobson » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:42 pm

open roader wrote:For what it's worth I googled images of anodised Sugino 75 series rings and also note that the bolt hole margins are nicely countersunk which is something I do remember to be true of the stock I handled............


Thanks, there was a countersink on the other side.
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby spirito » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:34 pm

Bobbybobson wrote:I should also add that I just did some googling and found that Sugino 75's are only 144BCD and only come in 1/8" (this is right, yes?)
Mine is 130BCD and 3/32". Dead giveaway. Silly me should have researched more before buying. Lucky thing I used PayPal and the seller is stupid enough to claim out-rightly that they're genuine.


You're jumping the gun .... and should really learn how to google properly. What you have is legit and genuine.

Sugino 75 did make a road version of their cranks and in fact a mini groupset. The road cranks needed no certification which is solely for Keirin use ... hence no NJS stamping. The road cranks did indeed have a 130bcd pattern.

Sugino offered the whole road and track 75 grouspet as a part of their 75th anniversary.

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=23

brakes, brake levers (carbon no less), derailleurs etc

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... 7&AbsPos=3

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... 8&AbsPos=2

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=24

http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=27

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Sug ... lleur.html


It's Ok if you're ignorant, but to accuse somebody of lying and basing your assumptions on the mob here who are none the wiser shows poor character on your behalf.
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby Bobbybobson » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:56 pm

Spirito, thanks for your input, premature character slur aside.
Yes, my assumption (based on a little, but obviously insufficient research) that my chain ring was fake since no CURRENT 75 chain rings are made in 130BCD and 3/32" was wrong, hence my further request for confirmation. I hardly count that as 'poor character'.
Back to the chain ring, are you 100% sure it's genuine? The reason I still have doubts is that the burs on every arm don't seem to me representative of Sugino quality. Furthermore, would the road chain ring teeth be sloped at all to facilitate shifting? As you can probably see from my OP, these teeth don't have any slopes. They are very much like track chain ring teeth, just 3/32".
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby spirito » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:41 pm

Bobbybobson wrote:
Back to the chain ring, are you 100% sure it's genuine? The reason I still have doubts is that the burs on every arm don't seem to me representative of Sugino quality. Furthermore, would the road chain ring teeth be sloped at all to facilitate shifting? As you can probably see from my OP, these teeth don't have any slopes. They are very much like track chain ring teeth, just 3/32".


Back in that time there wasn't such thing as profiled teeth or ramps. The burrs would take all of 30 seconds to clean off and won't affect function in any way. Furthermore once fitted you'd never know. Looking at other features it not only looks legit but a quality item. The stamping looks genuine and I would have no doubts about this item.

Again, it's strong thing to seek to discredit someone else based upon poor research and uninformed opinions. The problem I have is that had I not have seen this thread the seller would have had a strike against him, paypal would have found favour with you because they wouldn't know showtime and side with buyers almost 100% of the time and yet another bunch of self credited experts would have used this thread as fact and furthered disinformation.

It's ok not to know, just ask questions and be patient. Making assumptions by mob proxy isn't cool and never make decisions based on anything other than fact.
Last edited by spirito on Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby Bobbybobson » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:49 pm

Cheers,
Although I prematurely said what I said about using PayPal to get a refund I have waited to completely verify its authenticity before starting the claim, which I haven't yet done.
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby spirito » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:57 pm

What you have is definitely new and has never been used but could be nearly 30 years old. IMO, very cool, collectable and now you know of this it's your job to find the right home for it ;)
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Re: Is this Sugino chain ring genuine or fake?

Postby Bobbybobson » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:13 pm

Yeh I knew it was definitely new since the teeth have absolutely no wear and there are only the tiniest superficial scratches on it.
Funny thing is, I actually wanted it to be the same design as the ones with more teeth ie. with cutouts between the bolt holes and teeth, which I'm sure you're familiar with. I even messaged the seller and asked if the 44 teeth chain ring looked like the larger ones (since he was selling several sizes under the same listing), and he said yes. I didn't bother enquiring further since the seller said in writing that it did, and I assumed they might exist even though I haven't seen them. Turns out only the 46+ teeth plus have the cutouts and he didn't know that me asking 'does it look the same' meant 'does it also have cutouts (among other things)'. Totally should have specified that, but I thought it was pretty self-evident. To me this
Image
does not look like this
Image
It's all done and dusted now. And yes, it has a good home.
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