Scott Foil 20

Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:57 am

Hey guys,

Any thoughts on the Scott Foil 20, do any of you own a Foil?

I test rode the Foil 40 a few days ago and 105 seemed terrible, so di2 seems a bit expensive, my only option now is to go for the mechanical ultegra, or wait a long time for ultegra 8000 to come out?

Any repsonses welcome

Josh
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by BNA » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:54 am

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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Ozkaban » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:54 am

105 and mech Ultegra aren't that different - I run both. If the 105 felt terrible I'd suspect incorrect setup, though your definition of terrible might be different from mine.

What felt bad about it?
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:05 am

Ozkaban wrote:105 and mech Ultegra aren't that different - I run both. If the 105 felt terrible I'd suspect incorrect setup, though your definition of terrible might be different from mine.

What felt bad about it?


the 105 felt sluggish, the foil is an 840 gram frame, and it felt like the bike was 9kg with 105, it was sluggish, and on my 2 km ride of 105, i felt the chain constantly rubbing against something no matter how much i trimmed the front deralieur. The power i pushed through the pedals honestly didn't feel smooth at all. I currently ride dura ace 7900, so coming down from that is probably an issue too.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Ozkaban » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:33 am

HoldYaLine wrote:
Ozkaban wrote:105 and mech Ultegra aren't that different - I run both. If the 105 felt terrible I'd suspect incorrect setup, though your definition of terrible might be different from mine.

What felt bad about it?


the 105 felt sluggish, the foil is an 840 gram frame, and it felt like the bike was 9kg with 105, it was sluggish, and on my 2 km ride of 105, i felt the chain constantly rubbing against something no matter how much i trimmed the front deralieur. The power i pushed through the pedals honestly didn't feel smooth at all. I currently ride dura ace 7900, so coming down from that is probably an issue too.


Fair enough. Chain constantly rubbing is definitely a setup issue - I don't have that problem at all, though if you're used to DA I daresay you could feel the difference, especially on a high end frame like that.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:06 pm

HoldYaLine wrote:Hey guys,

Any thoughts on the Scott Foil 20, do any of you own a Foil?

I test rode the Foil 40 a few days ago and 105 seemed terrible, so di2 seems a bit expensive, my only option now is to go for the mechanical ultegra, or wait a long time for ultegra 8000 to come out?

Any repsonses welcome

Josh


Ultegra doesn't feel any different to 105 - only real difference is a bit of weight.

Ask them if you can test ride it again with a better set of wheels.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:18 pm

Are you sure you cant notice a difference between 105 and ultegra?
that means that to you - aside from weight - dura ace is the same as ultegra, because mechanically they are, 105 isnt?
and how would better wheels help, i don't have 2 grand to drop on clinchers, but i hear those wheels only help once your above 20 mph
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Ozkaban » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:28 pm

HoldYaLine wrote:Are you sure you cant notice a difference between 105 and ultegra?
that means that to you - aside from weight - dura ace is the same as ultegra, because mechanically they are, 105 isnt?
and how would better wheels help, i don't have 2 grand to drop on clinchers, but i hear those wheels only help once your above 20 mph


You can notice a difference. Ultegra shifts are lighter and a bit crisper, but it's a measure of degrees. Well tuned 105 will shift better than a sloppy ultegra. The weight difference over the whole group is about 3-400g. I can't speak for the difference between ultegra and DA, though I imagine it's a similar jump.

As for wheels, do you know which ones were on the bike?
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:41 pm

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=70098

i know the wheels are crap, that wasn't the model i was thinking of, i just wanted to get a feel for the foil. the main gripe i had about it was probably that it wasnt set up correctly. But in general, if it was set u correctly, i would like a lighter bike. Now, i dislike the feel of the current ultegra shifters, so i was wondering if i should wait for the next ultegra group, or just get a ultegra di 2 foil?
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Daccordi Rider » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 am

Do ya self a favour and get Campag!
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:05 am

I have the Foil 40, my chain rubs too, but the LBS said I just need it to bed in...Only covered 50k's.
This I am not so sure about will give it a few more k's then go back. The Di2 I borrowed didn't rub.
I may just move the adjustment screw myself and try from there, I can always move a 1/4 turn back if not. It only rubs on small on front crank and largest on rear cassette. Even after fitting a more performance related (to me) cassette the issue stayed. The cassette was LBS installed.

But sluggish, I would not agree with, but I have just moved from a Shimano Biopace and 300ex :oops:

What sold me on the Foil, in whatever component guise, is that he frame remains the same meaning that when I can the 105 will be passed down to wifey and I will import components and upgrade at a later date, it also has the holes in place no matter which way you go electronic or otherwise.

Great to see interest in the Foil, felt a bit of a loner amongst Giants!

Good luck, But TBH I would have bought the most expensive Foil I could ... and I did.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:51 pm

Wakatuki wrote:I have the Foil 40, my chain rubs too, but the LBS said I just need it to bed in...Only covered 50k's.
This I am not so sure about will give it a few more k's then go back. The Di2 I borrowed didn't rub.
I may just move the adjustment screw myself and try from there, I can always move a 1/4 turn back if not. It only rubs on small on front crank and largest on rear cassette. Even after fitting a more performance related (to me) cassette the issue stayed. The cassette was LBS installed.

But sluggish, I would not agree with, but I have just moved from a Shimano Biopace and 300ex :oops:

What sold me on the Foil, in whatever component guise, is that he frame remains the same meaning that when I can the 105 will be passed down to wifey and I will import components and upgrade at a later date, it also has the holes in place no matter which way you go electronic or otherwise.

Great to see interest in the Foil, felt a bit of a loner amongst Giants!

Good luck, But TBH I would have bought the most expensive Foil I could ... and I did.



are you suggesting i get the foil frame since they are all the same (except the foil 10 and premiuem/team and all those) and then put better components on?

I also felt like a loner, my club is about 75 percent giant ahah

But with the foils, the thing i hate, is that i always convince myself that i want the next model up, my dream bike went from the 40 to the 20 and a few hours ago to the 15 (the matte paint lookss sexyy)
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:08 pm

HoldYaLine wrote:
Wakatuki wrote:I have the Foil 40, my chain rubs too, but the LBS said I just need it to bed in...Only covered 50k's.
This I am not so sure about will give it a few more k's then go back. The Di2 I borrowed didn't rub.
I may just move the adjustment screw myself and try from there, I can always move a 1/4 turn back if not. It only rubs on small on front crank and largest on rear cassette. Even after fitting a more performance related (to me) cassette the issue stayed. The cassette was LBS installed.

But sluggish, I would not agree with, but I have just moved from a Shimano Biopace and 300ex :oops:

What sold me on the Foil, in whatever component guise, is that he frame remains the same meaning that when I can the 105 will be passed down to wifey and I will import components and upgrade at a later date, it also has the holes in place no matter which way you go electronic or otherwise.

Great to see interest in the Foil, felt a bit of a loner amongst Giants!

Good luck, But TBH I would have bought the most expensive Foil I could ... and I did.



are you suggesting i get the foil frame since they are all the same (except the foil 10 and premium/team and all those) and then put better components on?

I also felt like a loner, my club is about 75 percent giant ahah

But with the foils, the thing i hate, is that i always convince myself that i want the next model up, my dream bike went from the 40 to the 20 and a few hours ago to the 15 (the matte paint lookss sexyy)


Daccordi Rider, I walked myself up from a $1000 something. Loner, yes I picked a Scott because I loved it. The Giant fan base does get in the way of rational decisions sometimes. I love that others here knock Giant, we are not sheep.

Look, I test road the Foil 15, but WAY outa my price, the 20 was plausible, but honestly above my pay grade and skill. I'm the guy who wanted to put a Compact D on the Foil and the LBS told me that if I was surviving on a 52/40-13/23 combo then the new 53/39 would be fine. Just a 12/27 instead of the supplied 11/25 and he was right, It's me who needs to get better. Next year if Di2 drops in price at tax return time YIPEEE upgrade. The 5700 105 I am led to believe is the old Ultegra, the new Ultegra the old Dura and so on.

I checked before I handed over the cash that it was reasonably future proof, important, as when my skill level increases I do not need to chase another NEW bike. I have bigger bills (sorry guys) but small rewards are nice.

When I started on all this, everyone in my circle of Eddie experts was going OOO Ultegra OOO GT Swiss. Etc. that’s what Giants have, that’s what you need. One review really put me of the Foil saying it was harsh, I'm glad the LBS convinced me to ride, as I have not found that, I liked it, it was like my steel.

One bike shop put it like this, FRAME, WHEELS, COMPONENTS. This made sense.

Cars was/is my thing. To build a club racer you need a good car, then when you have exceeded the cars limits, change the tyres and wow suddenly your faster again. Then start stripping weight and adding sharper brakes etc. Your core investment is the CAR (frame), then TYRES (wheels), then components. Would you rather a base model Porsche or a fully loaded HSV, something to develop with or something that is already at its peak? At my level I am at the development stage, a long way from being any KOM for several months/seasons.
I chose to stand on the shoulder of Giants, I'm glad I bought the Scott Foil 40 with 105. Would I swap it tomorrow for a better bike? Well yeah but as long as someone else is paying!

Do I want it? Yes, I wanted the Foil. Do I need it? No, I do not need Ultegra. Can I afford it? Yes only 105. Can I live without it? NO :P
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:43 pm

interesting points there,
the thing for me is, since im a kid, im not paying for it, but i am acting like i am.

its different for me though, my parents would rather buy a bike and thatd be it, though, id prefer to buy cheap and upgrade, my parents see it is a higher cost (which isnt true)

thats why if i was to get the foil 15, it wouldnt need upgrading you know?
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:02 pm

If they allow, any Foil will be great. IMO
But the Foil 15 would have been a dream purchase. Great colour too.

They don't fancy a step son do they?

My old Raleigh gave has given me 20 years, I'm sure by the time your working, you will upgrading again, besides, not knowing your age, I assume you are still growing. Buy what you can afford (get away with), but VFM, the "happy meal" is no good if you really just want a KFC Zinger and a Mcflurry. Take whats best for you, not them (your mates), sounds like your attached to the Scott already though, emotion is a powerful tool.

Enjoy and have a good Christmas, be a lion my friend, not a sheep.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:27 pm

Wakatuki wrote:If they allow, any Foil will be great. IMO
But the Foil 15 would have been a dream purchase. Great colour too.

They don't fancy a step son do they?

My old Raleigh gave has given me 20 years, I'm sure by the time your working, you will upgrading again, besides, not knowing your age, I assume you are still growing. Buy what you can afford (get away with), but VFM, the "happy meal" is no good if you really just want a KFC Zinger and a Mcflurry. Take whats best for you, not them (your mates), sounds like your attached to the Scott already though, emotion is a powerful tool.

Enjoy and have a good Christmas, be a lion my friend, not a sheep.


some inspiring advice, im 14 btw, and every time i look at the price tag of the foil 15, i can't justify it, but then my friend tells me YOLO and i agree, bikes are hard :(((
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Philipthelam » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:30 pm

HoldYaLine wrote:interesting points there,
the thing for me is, since im a kid, im not paying for it, but i am acting like i am.

its different for me though, my parents would rather buy a bike and thatd be it, though, id prefer to buy cheap and upgrade, my parents see it is a higher cost (which isnt true)

thats why if i was to get the foil 15, it wouldnt need upgrading you know?


Your parents are going to pay $4000 for a bike for you :o

By kid do you mean that you are still growing? You wouldn't want to buy a great bike only for it to be too small in a couple of years.

What's the bike you currently ride? You could always swap the dura ace groupset you have with the 105 ( if you buy the foil 40)
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby HoldYaLine » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:33 pm

[quote="Philipthelam"][quote="HoldYaLine"]

You wouldn't want to buy a great bike only for it to be too small in a couple of years.

so many people say that to me, but i really dont want to believe it, what am i meant to do, have a bad bike during my teenage years, when i am probably going to be the most serious about it?
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:35 pm

At 14, if your set on Scott buy the 40 or 20. And be grateful for it.

In 3yrs it will be girls, cars and schoolies. :)
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Philipthelam » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:23 pm

HoldYaLine wrote:
Philipthelam wrote:
HoldYaLine wrote:
You wouldn't want to buy a great bike only for it to be too small in a couple of years.

so many people say that to me, but i really dont want to believe it, what am i meant to do, have a bad bike during my teenage years, when i am probably going to be the most serious about it?


Lol you call something under $4000/$3000 a bad bike? Lots of members here ride $2000 bikes and are very happy. You must either be spoilt, rich or must really like high end stuff.

Just go out and enjoy cycling.You'd get a lot more benefit (and enjoyment) by working on your engine the by buying a high end bike. Considering you are only 14 and you're not even paying for the bike

Buy the foil 20 if you feel that the 105 in the foil 40 is "terrible"
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Wakatuki » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:26 am

***UPDATE***
Played with lower limit screw on Foil 40 front derailler, FIXED, about a 3/4 turn required. All is good rode like a dream.

Also just for reference it this comes up on a search, the Tiagra on the wifes bike, fitted the same day I collected mine, I had to remove some chatter using the cable adjustment screw and realign the rear brakes.

Seems this is just bedding in and cable stretch, never had this issue on friction shift :lol:

Both about 3 weeks old.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Jonny Rochester » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:01 am

I think a Foil 20 would be close to a perfect bike for many people that are a bit competitive. Just choose your own seat and stem length etc. For the average rider that does the odd long ride the CR1 or Addict maybe better (more comfortable).

The Foil frame is light, but very fast also. Stiff and snappy acceleration, but also fairly light for the uphill. On a slight uphill I think it would be as fast as a lighter bike just because its stiffer and more efficient (that is the feeling anyway). The ride is just a little harsh, but would not be worse than similar frames. I have been riding a Addict which is almost a perfect frame. The addict is very very light, works well for everything, and with a regular size headtube/forks they flex enough to give a very comfortable ride over the potholes. The Foil is not like this, the Foil has the oversized headtube and fork giving it a stiff ride like many other modern frames. It's ok, you just get buzzed a bit more over potholes. I suspect the aero of the Foil does work (just a feeling after coasting along behind another rider), but I do feel crosswinds with the Foil more compared to the round tubes of the Scott Addict. Another thing that changes the feel of a bike alot is bars, carbon or alloy. Alloy bars are stiff for sprinting. Carbon gives flex for comfort and reduces sore hands.

I bought the 2013 Foil 40 (green edge colours) partly for the value and partly for the colours. The 105 is good. If its adjusted right it's faultless. The weight you feel in the Foil 40 is the wheels. Going from 105 to Ultegra is not nessesary. You don't have to spend $2000 on wheels either. I recomend Dura-Ace C24 wheels or RS80 C24 which are very similar. You can get a pair under $1000.

Foil 40 8.3kg

My Foil now has RS80 wheels and my old Ultegra 6700 groupset. 7.5kg total or 7.1kg with special attention to upgraded tyres/seat/bars/pedals.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:35 am

Jonny Rochester wrote:I think a Foil 20 would be close to a perfect bike for many people that are a bit competitive. Just choose your own seat and stem length etc. For the average rider that does the odd long ride the CR1 or Addict maybe better (more comfortable).

The Foil frame is light, but very fast also. Stiff and snappy acceleration, but also fairly light for the uphill. On a slight uphill I think it would be as fast as a lighter bike just because its stiffer and more efficient (that is the feeling anyway). The ride is just a little harsh, but would not be worse than similar frames. I have been riding a Addict which is almost a perfect frame. The addict is very very light, works well for everything, and with a regular size headtube/forks they flex enough to give a very comfortable ride over the potholes. The Foil is not like this, the Foil has the oversized headtube and fork giving it a stiff ride like many other modern frames. It's ok, you just get buzzed a bit more over potholes. I suspect the aero of the Foil does work (just a feeling after coasting along behind another rider), but I do feel crosswinds with the Foil more compared to the round tubes of the Scott Addict. Another thing that changes the feel of a bike alot is bars, carbon or alloy. Alloy bars are stiff for sprinting. Carbon gives flex for comfort and reduces sore hands.

I bought the 2013 Foil 40 (green edge colours) partly for the value and partly for the colours. The 105 is good. If its adjusted right it's faultless. The weight you feel in the Foil 40 is the wheels. Going from 105 to Ultegra is not nessesary. You don't have to spend $2000 on wheels either. I recomend Dura-Ace C24 wheels or RS80 C24 which are very similar. You can get a pair under $1000.

Foil 40 8.3kg

My Foil now has RS80 wheels and my old Ultegra 6700 groupset. 7.5kg total or 7.1kg with special attention to upgraded tyres/seat/bars/pedals.



^^^^^^ Spot on ^^^^^^^
I dont find the foil harsh though and I never really see me doing 150k's + per ride. Would have loved the Foil 20 or above, who would'nt!
Any tips on keeping it shiney or maintainance?
Wheels will be my first upgrade, R500's will be passed down to the wife and I will have the GLW wheels passed onto the old Raleigh!
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Rex » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:10 pm

I have a CR1 (2011) which is indeed quite forgiving on the roads but I'm pretty certain I feel the additional flex that comes with this also when under gas.
I would love a Foil frame for this reason alone, however I frequently do 100km+ rides so I'd be interested in how much the ride harshness would affect my riding enjoyment, if at all.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:12 pm

Rex wrote:I have a CR1 (2011) which is indeed quite forgiving on the roads but I'm pretty certain I feel the additional flex that comes with this also when under gas.
I would love a Foil frame for this reason alone, however I frequently do 100km+ rides so I'd be interested in how much the ride harshness would affect my riding enjoyment, if at all.

Rex, if you were closer would gladly let you have a go... I didn't gel with the CR1 (pro with carbon clinchers), only did 7k's up a mountain, then a fast downhill. Could I feel the flex, hmm a bit.
I am an inflexible 188cm 39yr old, weigh in at 102kg, when I stood up on Foil it did shoot forward by comparison. IMO
P.s. If I ever meet the guy who said the Foil is harsh in his review, probably the one we have all read at least once, I will offer him a cup of cement or give him his speccy roubaix back! It nearly stopped me even test riding this bike.
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Re: Scott Foil 20

Postby newie » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:57 pm

More Foil love here.
I have the Contessa Foil, which is the ladies version and is equivalent to the Foil 20. Only difference being a very nice matt black/purple paint job and ladies saddle and bars. I upgraded to lighter wheels (Mavic Ksyrium SR). I decided that that was a better place to spend the $$ rather than on going to Di2 or Durac-ace over Ultegra.

On average I am about 10% faster than I was on my old roadie (Avanti Giro). But is most noticeable on the flats and on those low gradients as mentioned above. There is quite often this magic feeling where you have the bike up to speed and it just seems to hold it effortlessly. I am not a particularly strong rider, but if I put my head down, then it is not often I am passed on a 3-5% uphill gradient. I am not noticing a huge difference on steeper hills, perhaps because the main issue there is lugging my own weight upwards... Having said that, a short, sharp hill using an out of the saddle effort is much easier/quicker.

Although I am no lightweight, being a short woman with a healthy (if not lean) BMI, I am not all that heavy, so I do get a bit nervous in crosswinds on a downhill, I do feel I get blown about a bit (and is another reason I didn't want aero wheels).

As for the rough ride, I was never bothered by my old alloy frame on long/rough roads, so I wasn't concerned. The longest ride on the Foil so far has been ~8 hrs and I was still comfortable at the end.

I still ride the Giro as a commuter during the week and in the wet. 7 months down the track I still get a bit of a thrill hopping on the Foil on the weekends.
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