tyre wear

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tyre wear

Postby liamb » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Hi All

What should I be looking for to know when to replace a Tyre. ( I am not looking for smart a#(AT) things like when you see cotton) I ride on reasonably good roads and dont really suffer many flats due to cuts or sharp pin prick punctures. I am trying to avoid getting stuck 2-3 hours from home up in the hills with a failed tyre I should have changed I noticed my back tyre is wearing obviously more than the front, but I am not sure how to tell what is the point of no return. The tyres are Vittoria Rubino Pro's and have done about 1850km. Currently the centre of the tyre is flatten off and is bald compare to the front which still has some curve and has less of a bald sheen.

Cheers

Bill
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by BNA » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:43 pm

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Re: tyre wear

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:43 pm

I prefer to replace well before it is worn down for the simple reason that all those harmless little bits that do not otherwise give me flats indeed do with a well worn tyre.

However you say that you do not get much trouble from punctures due to roads you ride. The rate of flats that you get is probably a pretty good gauge. A few tyres in and you should have a fair idea of at what stage of wear the tyre is insufficient protection.

(As an aside considering replacement approaching 2000km is rather intriguing (to me). I often wonder what the value is of the better quality higher priced tyres. I would get many thousands on my old 1" and 1.125" high pressure tyres in "the good old days". It seems that the life of a product is in inverse proportion to the price. :?: )
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Re: tyre wear

Postby wombatK » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:51 pm

My rule of thumb is if the tyre has done more than 10,000 km and I get a flat within 200 km of the previous one, the tyre gets binned. This works for Conti GP4000s, which have lasted me 12,500 km and average one puncture per 3000 km. That's about half the puncture rate of other tyres I've used. And double the mileage.

FWIW, I'm 77 kg and if you're heavier you can expect higher wear and puncture rates. I also check and top-up my tyre pressures every couple of days. Low tyre pressure leads to pinch flats - and you'll get multiple failures in a relatively short riding distance.

All other things being equal, expect a fair bit more life out of your Rubino Pro's. A bit of squaring off is normal, and if its not too extensive, it can help extend life to rotate back and front tyres at about the half-way mark (e.g. around 2500 km in your case). If the back tyre gets too worn, putting on the front isn't a wonderful idea - as that's what you steer with and it has most of your braking weight on it.

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Re: tyre wear

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:20 pm

Gonna argue the toss on this one Wombat, I'd never rotate any amount of squared off rear to the front. Starting from a new pair, maybe-if you do it every 500kms-maybe.

Bill, how wide is the squared off strip on the rear? Personally, I'd be replacing at about 30-40% of nominal tyre width. As always, buy one new tyre, put it on the front, the front to the rear and the rear in the bin. I will note here for you that I'm very conservative here but IMO, brakes and tyres are the two areas where trying to save money can have unfortunate consequences.

Oh yeah... Tread is unnecessary for road tyres,the patterns on road tyres are more for marketing and brand recognition than function.

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Re: tyre wear

Postby twizzle » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:26 pm

Geez, I'm getting down to the exposed carcass on the rear about every 2000km. Mind you, it's a soft race tyre... prior to this brand/model, I'd usually be binning the rear from terminal cuts well before 2000km.


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Re: tyre wear

Postby wombatK » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:45 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Gonna argue the toss on this one Wombat, I'd never rotate any amount of squared off rear to the front. Starting from a new pair, maybe-if you do it every 500kms-maybe.

I can see your point of view Shaun. I've only done it with my Conti GP4000s - and what gave me the confidence to do it with them was that they have a wear dimple that made it clear I'd not passed the half-way mark. And I'm no boy-racer - I don't go through corners at high speed and low angles to the ground. If I was a racer, I wouldn't gamble with rotating to the front.
twizzle wrote:Geez, I'm getting down to the exposed carcass on the rear about every 2000km

No wonder you're way ahead on the Black Cats comp. Are Canberra roads paved with carborundum, or are the
puncture fairies sneaking in at night and sanding away at your tyres ?

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Re: tyre wear

Postby twizzle » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:00 pm

As I said, it's a race tyre. Reeeeeeally soft, but the carcass is incredibly cut resistant, so it works out better. Every other tyre would suffer a fatal cut well before wearing out.

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Re: tyre wear

Postby il padrone » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:16 pm

I do a 'half-life' swap with my Vittoria Randonneur Cross tyres, by which stage they still have a jolly good measure of tread depth still present. I do it to get about equal wear out of two tyres and swap them together as well worn-out. Partly because if I was to do the 'front to rear and discard rear' swap the rear tyre will always look absolutely bedraggled due to their very long lifespan. Even when they're well worn-out and showing the red liner layer I have complete confidence in their grip and puncture resistance.
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Re: tyre wear

Postby eeksll » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:05 pm

I ride mainly in the sa hills and I very very rarely get punctures. The tyres I have binned, I was not getting punctures or seeing cotton, but I could see the diagonal thread pattern imprint starting to show through (but not cotton bits showing :)). (Vitoria Zaffiro tyres)

Currently using gp 4000s, they have tread/life indicators.
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Re: tyre wear

Postby Wal42 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:01 am

I'm a maintenance nazi with my bikes, so tyres get rotated (F to R & R to F) every week or fortnight (some of my bikes getting different levels of riding), I keep at least one set of new tyres in stock at all times.

I'm with Mulger Bill on rotating very squared off rears to the front, coming off that 'flat' spot in the wet can sometimes cause the tyre to slide. I think it's easier & more cost effective to rotate your tyres regularly & fit new 'sets' rather than replacing fronts & rears at different intervals, also buying 2 tyres gives you just a little bit more bargaining power (or do as I do & buy 2 or 4 sets at a time).


Tread, honestly I think that tyres with no tread grooving in the centre clear water away better than those with a groove (road pushbike tyre not MTB, car or motorcycle) a narrow road bike tyre seems to 'cut' through the surface of the water & disperse it out to the sides (no actual science to back this up, just seat of the pants feel & observation of the water splitting under numerous front tyres). As for dry weather, they'll all pretty much the same, they have a fairly specific grip limit, go past this limit & they let go (lots of personal experience with this one), but most very good tyres will hang in there until you ask just that little too much & it's a fairly extreme level you need to get to for them to let go, the only exception I've noticed to this is Conti Gatorskins, for the first 300-500kms they suffer badly from whatever release aid they use to get them out of the mould, once you wear all the release aid off they are fine, but they don't inspire much confidence up until that point, my first experience of this was a very slow turn (10-15kph)in the wet, the front 'washed' out about 30cms, I kept the bike up (no don't marvel at my skill levels as I was sure I was going down) but only barely, the same tyres after 500kms, I have done a downhill turn (Stafford Road coming into Everton Hills) in torrential Brisbane rain at 50kph, no issues at all.

With tyres, you get what you pay for, better tyres cost bigger money, look after them & they'll look after you, I check them EVERY post ride, pick out any road bits & repair any little cuts, I've had one flat this year, a thorn from someones garden crud left on a riverloop street, spending 10 minutes servicing your bike & equipment, will save you lots in the long run.
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Re: tyre wear

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:25 pm

Wal42 wrote:the only exception I've noticed to this is Conti Gatorskins, for the first 300-500kms they suffer badly from whatever release aid they use to get them out of the mould, once you wear all the release aid off they are fine,


Try a metho soaked rag for this, improves things somewhat. Slippery release agent seems to be a very Conti thing IME.
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Re: tyre wear

Postby liamb » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:07 pm

I wont quote on all the comments but the "flat area" on the rear is easily 1/3 of the total width of the tyre. Compared to the front it is a very obvious difference in width of bald surface. On the front there is still signs of the tread, but on the rear the tread has well and truly gone and there is little or no curve to the bald area.
I am super conservative and have noticed that there are many cuts and chips so better to be safe than sorry so I will change it over and put it on the trainer rim to make the most out of it. My thinking is start looking at changing around the 2000km mark with consideration of the cuts and chips as much as the bald area.
Cheers for all the suggestions and advice guys.

Bill
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Re: tyre wear

Postby Wal42 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:12 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
Wal42 wrote:the only exception I've noticed to this is Conti Gatorskins, for the first 300-500kms they suffer badly from whatever release aid they use to get them out of the mould, once you wear all the release aid off they are fine,


Try a metho soaked rag for this, improves things somewhat. Slippery release agent seems to be a very Conti thing IME.



I could have done something like that, thanks Shaun. I come from a racing background & spent a long time in & around motorcycles, don't know how many times I've witnessed first hand guys picking up m/c's with new tyres, warned to be careful for a while until they 'wear in', only to see them bin their bikes either going out of the driveway or a few hundred yards up the road.

I've been through 3 sets of Gators, only the first set caught me, also used 3 out of 4 sets (the last set is half way through) of GP4000s' , didn't even have the slightest issue with them, I thought it was only the Gators, but that's handy for others to be aware of.

People fit new tyres, don't know about this type of thing, then bag the daylights because they've had a bad experience (hey rightly so), but if they were aware before hand, the issue may not have occurred.

I'm currently using Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comps, yep heard all the bad reports & have been told first hand how bad they used to be, but that same guy (my mechanic) also suggested them to me as they've taken all the criticism on board & are building a pretty good all around tyre. I've got on Duo-Comp Superlight tyre here, lightning fast but suffers from the same problem as I found with the Schwalbe Ultremo R1's, ultra quick but suffer badly from wear & cuts. Both are perfect smooth course crit tyres (same could be said for Vittoria Evo Corse CX's), but if you're riding road (or TT) with lots of road litter around then unless you want to play the odds (sometimes that works), then you're better off with something a bit more durable. For commuting, I'm currently very impressed by a set of Serfas Seca Survivors, you couldn't kill them with a rusty axe, very durable & roll fairly nicely (for a touring tyre), no cuts, no flats, take a real beating. Horses for courses, want a super fast smooth course race tyre then think the Vittoria, Schwalbe or Duo-comp, want something fast but will take road rubbish, then GP4000s or Tri-Comp, want something that will last & take a bit of punishment then think Gatorskin or Serfas, now I'm sure their are other tyres around that will equally do the jobs I'm describing, what I'm trying to get across is is you fit something like a R1, CX or Duo & expect it to hack glass, nails, bits of steel etc. for 10 000kms then you'll be sadly disappointed, fit a touring tyre & think it'll be the best on a crit track, again you'll be disappointed.
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Re: tyre wear

Postby Mustang » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:43 pm

On the beautiful Sunshine Coast we have nice verges, hotmix, & heaps of idiots that throw out glass bottles.
I once got 6000km out of a Maxxis Refuse but mostly everything else gets slashed before its worn, I,m happy at the moment with Vittoria Robino Pros, they are on 3 x bikes & (touch my head) no punctures. :D
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