Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:06 am

Ok, an update. I've been periodically going and pumping the continental force up to 120psi on the rear durace c50. This is after removing the factory rim strip and putting cloth tape on. No BOOM at this point.

I'm going to re-fit the front tyre with rim tape, and I'm going to leave both of them for another week or so. If they are still on the rim I'll bite the bullet and fit them on the bike and take them for a little roll. :o

The problem with this insidious issue is that it's going to take some time to get the confidence back in the whole thing. :oops: :oops:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

by BNA » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:11 pm

BNA
 

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby bosvit » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:11 pm

Comedian wrote: The problem with this insidious issue is that it's going to take some time to get the confidence back in the whole thing. :oops: :oops:

Absolutely!

Just send them to me and you wont have to stress about it ever again! :wink:
User avatar
bosvit
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:47 pm
Location: Port Lincoln

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby jasonc » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:12 pm

bosvit wrote:Just send them to me and you wont have to stress about it ever again! :wink:


I've got first dibs I believe :mrgreen:
Image
jasonc
 
Posts: 5125
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby winstonw » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:56 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Lot of people looking backwards in that photo :shock: ... If it doesn't bring me down I prefer to keep my eyes looking forward when I am two inches off someones else's wheel!.


This was the final sprint, so those towards the back were out of contention. I included the pic because everyone heard the "bang", and thought wt.
User avatar
winstonw
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:18 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby winstonw » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:50 pm

Comedian wrote:The problem with this insidious issue is that it's going to take some time to get the confidence back in the whole thing. :oops: :oops:


At least it's been consistent.....getting death wobble, even once, is enough to steal confidence long term in your frame, wheels, self.

By changing the tape and tire type, that's two things changed simultaneously. Wouldn't it be more revealing to change one thing at a time....so tape and same tires as before?
User avatar
winstonw
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:18 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:25 pm

winstonw wrote:
Comedian wrote:The problem with this insidious issue is that it's going to take some time to get the confidence back in the whole thing. :oops: :oops:


At least it's been consistent.....getting death wobble, even once, is enough to steal confidence long term in your frame, wheels, self.

By changing the tape and tire type, that's two things changed simultaneously. Wouldn't it be more revealing to change one thing at a time....so tape and same tires as before?

We did. We put the contis on the wheel with the old tape and it blew off! That was the oh no moment. So, we replaced the tape with the same tyre and it's still on.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby bosvit » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:52 pm

I guess it will be interesting to see how the Ultremo's go with the new rim tape if it all works out with the Conti's
User avatar
bosvit
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:47 pm
Location: Port Lincoln

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby eeksll » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:55 pm

all this talk of stretching the bead makes me a little queasy. I know when I first got the gp4000s I couldn't een get the first bead on my dt-swiss wheels even with tyre levers. Now I can take them off and put them on the rims with my hands.

in terms of stretch, i eventually got them on by installing them on a R500 (which has a deeper center, hence easier to fit), pumping them up to 120, wait an hour or so, let them down and install on the dtswiss wheels, definite stretch in a very short period.
eeksll
 
Posts: 1230
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:36 pm

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Philipthelam » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:14 pm

jacks1071 wrote:The more I think about this issue, the more I am confident that the OP is stretching the tyres by over inflating them.


In my very limited knowledge, I'd think this was the cause as well.

lets see how the new tires go.
Philipthelam
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:10 pm

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby ijpnic » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:40 pm

In my limited experience with the Ultremo Tyre, schwable have very varied quality between different manufacturing times. they are usually a very good Tyre but you will sometimes get a few that are duds and refuse to behave. I dont know if anyone else has noticed this but that's just my point of view, thats why i run conti's
ijpnic
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:25 am

Ok. The c50 still has the conti on the rim.

However my c24 ultremo DD was down to the canvas so I had to do something. I took the Dd off, removed the blue factory rim tape, and replaced it with cloth.

I then grabbed one of the near new ultremo ZX that had blown off the c50. I fitted it using the usual procedure and pumped it to 140. It's still on the rim this morning. That's a good sign... but not conclusive. I may max it out and leave it for a few more hours. If its still up this afternoon ill drop it to 110 or so and ride it. Cross fingers. :shock: :shock:

If you don't hear from me again.. you'll know what happened. :shock:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Nobody » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:17 am

Comedian wrote:If you don't hear from me again.. you'll know what happened. :shock:
Leave a message with one of your friends to post if you don't make it. That way we'll know for sure. :wink:
Nobody
 
Posts: 6488
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby antipodean » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:27 pm

Why do you insist on pumping it to 140 psi? Like others have mentioned this is more than likely the cause of your problem.
2013 Oppy SL
2013 Boardman CX Pro
2012 KHS Yuma 29er
antipodean
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:48 pm

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:00 pm

antipodean wrote:Why do you insist on pumping it to 140 psi? Like others have mentioned this is more than likely the cause of your problem.


It's kind of a check pressure test. The manufacturers of both the tyre and the rims specify a max pressure of 10 bar. I figure they have both got substantial margins in those figures. As you've seen above, the tyre manufacturers state that they are good for up to 290psi!

See... my theory is if it doesn't blow off at 145, then if I back it off to 120 ... it shouldn't blow off at that. :) If the past I've had them blow off at as little as 115.

As you can see by me typing this message, I survived my test ride at 120 today on a ZX (with about 150k). It was fitted to the DA C24 minus the factory blue rim tape (replaced with cloth). Cross fingers...
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby bosvit » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:24 pm

Let's hope all your problems were caused by something as simple as rim tape.
User avatar
bosvit
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:47 pm
Location: Port Lincoln

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:03 pm

bosvit wrote:Let's hope all your problems were caused by something as simple as rim tape.

In a week or two ill feel more confident that we have a solution. :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:11 pm

This may not make for interesting television but I survived another schwalbe ride today without incident. Nice little stroll through the hills... :mrgreen:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby bosvit » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:44 pm

Your a man on the edge Mr Amos :wink:
User avatar
bosvit
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:47 pm
Location: Port Lincoln

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:50 pm

bosvit wrote:Your a man on the edge Mr Amos :wink:


Thats just the way I roll.. Boom Boom... I mean.. oh never mind. :roll: :mrgreen:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby winstonw » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:20 pm

Comedian, weren't you having blow offs on all three wheelsets?
I'd be interested to know if you have ever stored your wheels in your car or some other hot place that may have stretched the plastic type rim tape excessively.
Or maybe 140psi is unduly stretching the tape?!
User avatar
winstonw
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:18 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby biker jk » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:26 pm

winstonw wrote:Comedian, weren't you having blow offs on all three wheelsets?
I'd be interested to know if you have ever stored your wheels in your car or some other hot place that may have stretched the plastic type rim tape excessively.
Or maybe 140psi is unduly stretching the tape?!


That's a good point since the Shimano rim tape is rated to 145psi. Each 10 deg celsius rise in temperature increases pressure by 1 psi. So if the temp rises 30 deg that's an extra 3 psi. From 140 psi you're getting close to the rim tape's limit.
User avatar
biker jk
 
Posts: 2174
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:41 pm

winstonw wrote:Comedian, weren't you having blow offs on all three wheelsets?
I'd be interested to know if you have ever stored your wheels in your car or some other hot place that may have stretched the plastic type rim tape excessively.
Or maybe 140psi is unduly stretching the tape?!


There are three wheelsets in play here. The C24 and Mavic's have only had maybe one or two blow offs. The durace c50 I was just unable to keep the bloody tyres on!

The bike may have been in a car occasionally but I can't think of a case where it has been. We have an external bike carrier and this is how I carry it although I ride everywhere so this is a very very occasional thing. So, being stored on the rack behind the car probably isn't greatly different to actually being ridden, or leant up against something at a cafe in the sun.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby bosvit » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:02 pm

Hey Comedian

I think you need a shirt with something on it like

"In my experience you are not experiencing what you think you are experiencing" :roll: :mrgreen:
User avatar
bosvit
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:47 pm
Location: Port Lincoln

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Comedian » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:20 am

bosvit wrote:Hey Comedian

I think you need a shirt with something on it like

"In my experience you are not experiencing what you think you are experiencing" :roll: :mrgreen:


It's pretty funny - hey? You've got three very experienced riders who have never had a problem fitting tyres to wheels. Some new tyres from two reputable brands. Some top shelf wheels from a prominent Japanese manufacturer. And no one can make them work together. :mrgreen:

So we've got people saying...

- You're fitting them wrong.
- You're pumping them up too much - even if it is below the max pressure.
- You're generally incompetent.
- You're using them to ride a bike on.
- You're leaving them in your car.
- The rims are cracked.
- The spokes are too tight.
- Your gauge is inaccurate.
- You're not using nitrogen.
- You're stretching them putting them on.
- You should stop using them as props in bondage roll play games.

Did I miss anything there? I'm sure there is a little bit of truth in all of those points. Many of them may be contributors. I'm not prepared to call it finally yet, but it's looking like it was actually just the rim tape! :mrgreen: :lol:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Comedian
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Schwalbe Ultremo blowing off rim

Postby Nobody » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:58 am

Comedian wrote:- You're not using nitrogen.
Strange comment since the air is 78% nitrogen.

Comedian wrote:Did I miss anything there?
Yes.

- Rims not able to handle the pressure.

I'm sure I read that at least once.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6488
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

PreviousNext

Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot]



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist