Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
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Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby mrgolf » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:10 pm
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=1 ... oXwYjBVXPk
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=1 ... Q_WzxSttv4
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=1 ... CTrvdIEgNk
The other splits are at the base of the sidewall just above the bead and are more concerning as they are quite deep. They tend to follow the radius of the rim, but at the end often change direction towards the rolling surface of the tyre. You can see the splits just above the edge of the rim in this pic. There are splits like this at many points around the tyre.
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=1 ... W4spp2L6Yg
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=1 ... Hs8id_Ei28
The reason I think this is odd is because the front tyre shows no such issues. Yes, it is underloaded by comparison, but there is no sign of damage. They have travelled about 1500kms since install. Any ideas? Manufacturing issue? Don't ride that tyre again ever? Email pics to Hutchinson? Claim warranty? I run a set of Intensives on my commute bike, but no splits on them (only about 150kms...)
Also, when I deflated they tyre, it came off the bead instantly. I thought the bead was meant to hold in place instead of returning to the centre channel.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby greyhoundtom » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:38 pm
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby Crawf » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:39 pm
Hutchinson are hard to contact, try their Facebook for a more direct response.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby Snicks » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:35 pm
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby Pottsy » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:19 pm
I returned them & got 2 new sets under warranty. If you bought them in Aus i would return them. If not then good luck.
BTW 110 psi is overkill for tubeless. Im 70kg & was running 85-90 psi
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby mrgolf » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:21 pm
You arent the first person to suggest my pressures were too high. Problem is, I run 120 on tubed wheels on account of it running faster due to lower rolling resistance. When I ran the fusions at manufacturers recommended it felt more sluggish and like it required more effort. GPS was inconclusive, but I still prefer the harder feeling of higher pressure. I still cant accept that lower pressures wont end up giving higher rolling resistance. It seems completely counter intuitive.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby twizzle » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:54 pm
Sent from my iThingy...
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby Cruiserman » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:01 am
The higher the air pressure, the less the tire will deflect.
The trade-off with this is that if you pump the tire up too hard, you lose the benefits of pneumatic tires: the ride becomes excessively harsh, and traction will be reduced. In addition, extremely high pressures require a stronger (heavier) fabric and stronger (heavier) rim flanges.
When riding on a smooth surface, rolling resistance does decrease theoretically with any increase in pressure, but with modern, high-quality tires the rolling resistance at correct inflation pressure is already so low that the infinitesimal reductions gained are more than outweighed by the trade-offs.
In practice, riding surfaces aren't perfectly smooth, and overinflation actually increases rolling resistance, due to vibration.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby jcjordan » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:40 pm
You need to take this theory with some additional thinking as there is a point where (depending on the wait of the rider) that two low a pressure becomes counter productive. Fir instance I can see a major change in handing if I let my tires drop to 110 psi from its normal 120.Cruiserman wrote:With reference to Sheldon Brown - Such high pressures will assist if you ride on a wooden velodrome all the time otherwise it is counter productive. I have highlighted the relevent part of the short cut and paste from http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
The higher the air pressure, the less the tire will deflect.
The trade-off with this is that if you pump the tire up too hard, you lose the benefits of pneumatic tires: the ride becomes excessively harsh, and traction will be reduced. In addition, extremely high pressures require a stronger (heavier) fabric and stronger (heavier) rim flanges.
When riding on a smooth surface, rolling resistance does decrease theoretically with any increase in pressure, but with modern, high-quality tires the rolling resistance at correct inflation pressure is already so low that the infinitesimal reductions gained are more than outweighed by the trade-offs.
In practice, riding surfaces aren't perfectly smooth, and overinflation actually increases rolling resistance, due to vibration.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby Cruiserman » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:37 pm
Not really the salient point in the comment was "correct inflation pressure" as distinct from maximum inflation and/or under inflation.jcjordan wrote:You need to take this theory with some additional thinking as there is a point where (depending on the wait of the rider) that two low a pressure becomes counter productive. Fir instance I can see a major change in handing if I let my tires drop to 110 psi from its normal 120.Cruiserman wrote:With reference to Sheldon Brown - Such high pressures will assist if you ride on a wooden velodrome all the time otherwise it is counter productive. I have highlighted the relevent part of the short cut and paste from http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
The higher the air pressure, the less the tire will deflect.
The trade-off with this is that if you pump the tire up too hard, you lose the benefits of pneumatic tires: the ride becomes excessively harsh, and traction will be reduced. In addition, extremely high pressures require a stronger (heavier) fabric and stronger (heavier) rim flanges.
When riding on a smooth surface, rolling resistance does decrease theoretically with any increase in pressure, but with modern, high-quality tires the rolling resistance at correct inflation pressure is already so low that the infinitesimal reductions gained are more than outweighed by the trade-offs.
In practice, riding surfaces aren't perfectly smooth, and overinflation actually increases rolling resistance, due to vibration.
1986 Spokesman Model 11 Racing - Campag Nuvo Record - Stronglight - Shimano 600
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby mrgolf » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:00 pm
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby Cruiserman » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:28 pm
Yes however tubed clinchers run the risk of pinch flatting a non issue with tubeless.mrgolf wrote:Does the same logic apply to tubulars and tubed clinchers?
Tubulars are assisted in staying on the rim by the higher pressures and they do not put massive pressure on the wall of the rim. Pinch flats are greatly reduced ( but not eliminated as there is a tube in there) with the tubular due to the absence of the rim walls required for the clincher.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby jacks1071 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:54 pm
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby mrgolf » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:19 pm
Either enlighten us with a succinct description of your negative experience or dont bother posting. Unless I have missed that you are the god of cycling whose opinion should be listened to and agreed with/ adhered to. I like discussion, but not unnecessary negative verballing. No actual offence meant. Just saying....
In other news, the splits haven't gotten any bigger and the tyres are still working a charm. I still havent reduced my pressures, though. I could be convinced to go as low as 100psi, but not much lower...
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby twizzle » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:46 pm
Sent from my iThingy...
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby jacks1071 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:59 am
There is a mega thread in the shed section where you'll find details on my experiences. I'll recap for you brieflymrgolf wrote:keyboard warrior = epic failure.
Either enlighten us with a succinct description of your negative experience or dont bother posting. Unless I have missed that you are the god of cycling whose opinion should be listened to and agreed with/ adhered to. I like discussion, but not unnecessary negative verballing. No actual offence meant. Just saying....
In other news, the splits haven't gotten any bigger and the tyres are still working a charm. I still havent reduced my pressures, though. I could be convinced to go as low as 100psi, but not much lower...
Most people try tubeless because they think it'll mean they never get another flat tyre. In my experience going from durable training "tubed" tyres to the somewhat less durable tubeless tyres provided exactly the opposite to what I was hoping for. Ie. My puncture rate increased.
Yes, some punctures self healed but they were punctures that otherwise wouldn't have existed with a more durable tyre. Other punctures didn't heal and sprayed my buddies and I in sealant.
After you've had to slosh through the sealant to stick a tube in the tyre on the side of the road once or twice you'll be looking for the trash can.
I tried two models of tyres (Intensive & Fusion 2) and I used both Stans and Joes Road Racer sealant. I ran this setup on a few different sets of wheels and formed my opinion over a few thousand kms.
I like the theory behind road tubeless, the idea of less punctures is romantic but in my experience the tyres are rubbish. Sure some people will swear by it but it didn't take me long to go back to tubes. If you want less punctures, buy a training tyre.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby twizzle » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:48 am
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby skull » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:19 am
Now that summernats is on there will be quite a lot more side of road ornaments most likely.twizzle wrote:Panaracer Race Type D. I've done ~900km in the last two weeks without a puncture, despite Chrissy and New Year road decorations.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby sumgy » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:13 am
Having read lots about them on various forums I came to the same conclusion.twizzle wrote:Having played with them... road tubeless appears to be a solution looking for a problem.
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I am yet to see a valid benefit of them over tubed tyres.
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Re: Fusion 3 Tubeless issue
Postby mrgolf » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:18 pm
For the record, I ran GP4000s, Attack/ Force and Ultremo ZX. I flirted with Gatorskins a couple of times, but didnt see an advantage in durability or puncture resistance. I had a brilliant run with most of these tyres and assume they fit the category of race tyres. I haven't had an issue with the Fusion3's or Intensives (other than the aforementioned splits) so far, but have flicked a few bits of glass out of the rolling surface. I would have done a couple of thousand kms on the Fusions so far. A more measured judgement of success can be made in about 6 months time.
I imagine it wouldn't be fun to get covered in sealant when changing tubes. I hope I dont suffer that ever, but accept I will at some point.
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