$500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

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$500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby Cheesewheel » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:16 pm

He wasn't riding a bike but I guess its still pertinent.

Victorian fined for trekking underprepared

"We believed the 29-year-old placed himself and the search teams at risk through his lack of planning and preparation, and through carrying inadequate provisions," NSW Police Force Rescue commander Brenton Charlton said.
"The man had with him a kilo of potatoes and naan bread."
Mr Charlton said the man's intended route through remote terrain would have been extremely difficult to complete safely and it had taken much longer than he had estimated.
"Getting the basics right with trekking is so easy - all people have to do is notify the police or other responsible person of their trip intention and carry a personal locator beacon," he said.
"Making use of available technology, together with some commonsense trip preparation, could mean the difference between life or death."
The man has been given a $500 infringement notice for engaging "in activity that risks the safety of self/others".


Suggestions on what he could have done with the extra $500 or less?


Image
Spot V2 Personal Satellite GPS Tracker & Locator ($190)

and also ditch the naan bread for a chapati plate , camp stove, firesteel and a few kilos of wholemeal flour and a few more potatoes ..... :lol:

Edit - maybe should have put this in the touring equipment section
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by BNA » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:36 am

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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby WarrenH » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:36 am

Well, New South Wales is the Nanny State.

Will going into a National Park in NSW after the first of March with out a bullet proof jacket and a hi-viz vest on, be considered touring without adequate equipment?

Warren.
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby il padrone » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:29 am

At the time that they found him he still had a kilo of spuds and naan bread ?? Sounds like he had sufficient extra food to my thinking.

Perhaps the sprained ankle was more of an issue in missing his rendezvous, rather than any shortage of food. Going by the article I think the rescue authorities sound like the only fools here :roll:
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby queequeg » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:56 am

WarrenH wrote:Well, New South Wales is the Nanny State.

Will going into a National Park in NSW after the first of March with out a bullet proof jacket and a hi-viz vest on, be considered touring without adequate equipment?

Warren.


Nah, bullet proof vests are considered prohibited weapons!
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby RonK » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:22 am

A kilo of potatoes? Jeez - and to think of all the times I've gone bush with a few packets of Deb with onions and a tin of sardines. :)

I'd probably be thrown in gaol.

Well, at least I have a PLB these days.
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby Aushiker » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:05 pm

il padrone wrote:At the time that they found him he still had a kilo of spuds and naan bread ?? Sounds like he had sufficient extra food to my thinking.


The ABC is reporting

Police say the 29-year-old only had a kilo of potatoes and a naan bread in his backpack when he left for the walk on Wednesday afternoon...

"When the man set out he had with him a kilo of potatoes and naan bread," he said.

"We believed the 29-year-old placed himself and the search teams at risk through his lack of planning and preparation, and through carrying inadequate provisions."

Police also allege his intended route, through remote terrain, would have been extremely difficult to complete safely.

They say it would have taken much longer than the man had estimated.


which was my reading of the SMH article as well, even though it was expressed well. Given where he was walking, the distance, the time of the year and that two helicopters etc had to be brought in, and his clear lack of preparation I think the fine is quite appropriate.

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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby WarrenH » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:52 pm

If you know the distances involved he sounds like he was certainly under resourced, but the media including Police media releases, do look for the worst angles ... to shock us or to wake us up.

A 29 year old bloke from Victoria was geologically embarrassed with a sore ankle. He was dropped off by friends at Newnes (Wednesday 26 Dec) afternoon and intended to walk to Colo Heights, taking three days to go 100 kilometres. When he did not reach the intended rendezvous point at Colo Heights on Saturday 29 Dec, his friends contacted police and a search began.

If you don't know the Wolgan Valley there is a river that runs the length of it so he wouldn't have been without water. At the confluence of the Wolgan and Capertee Rivers, they become the Colo River. There are cattle up stream on both the Wolgan and Capertee, he would have needed to process the water. Wolgan River Fire Trail from Newnes goes for about 25 kilometres, he then had about 75 kilometres of wild and fairly difficult river walking before he reached the Upper Colo Heights Road. Travelling along the Colo if the water is up is best done on Lilos and can require portage at times. I've done several extended trips into the Wolgan Valley and onto the Capertee Divide (walking only over the Capertee Divide) and to the Colo. Fantastic for side trips from the BNT.

The fine would have been issued under the NSW Government's National Parks and Wildlife Act 1974, in National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2009 ... http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewt ... FIRST+0+N/

In the Greater Blue Mountains emergency beacons (PLB's) are available free of charge from the NSW Police Force and NP&WS. The PLBs have been donated by Benbro Electronics and can be borrowed, from the NPWS Blue Mountains Heritage Centre at Blackheath, and after hours at the Katoomba or Springwood Police Stations. Coming from interstate, it's possible that he would not have known about this service.

Kosciusko National Park also hires out PLBs to bushwalkers for a small fee - contact the Tumut, Khancoban and Jindabyne NPWS offices for more information and they are also available at the Namadgi National Park Visitor's Centre in the ACT.

Wolgan Valley.

Image

Image


Warren.
Last edited by WarrenH on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby RonK » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:06 pm

Aushiker wrote:
"When the man set out he had with him a kilo of potatoes and naan bread," he said.

"We believed the 29-year-old placed himself and the search teams at risk through his lack of planning and preparation, and through carrying inadequate provisions."

Police also allege his intended route, through remote terrain, would have been extremely difficult to complete safely.

They say it would have taken much longer than the man had estimated.


which was my reading of the SMH article as well, even though it was expressed well. Given where he was walking, the distance, the time of the year and that two helicopters etc had to be brought in, and his clear lack of preparation I think the fine is quite appropriate.


It seems to me there is insufficient information available to rush to such a judgement. The amount of naan bread he carried is not specified - he could have had a large quantity of it. As previously mentioned, I have have trekked for weeks eating little more than instant noodles, Deb mashed potatoes and naan when I lost my appetite for anything else at high altitude.

And the inadequacy of his plans and preparations are Police allegations, not established facts. This can only be determined by knowledge of the mans fitness, experience and capabilities.

It would be ironic if those who rush to applaud the imposition of this penalty are the same people who complain about living in a nanny state.
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby Aushiker » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:30 pm

RonK wrote:It seems to me there is insufficient information available to rush to such a judgement. The amount of naan bread he carried is not specified - he could have had a large quantity of it.


Actually what I said was ...

Given where he was walking, the distance, the time of the year and that two helicopters etc had to be brought in, and his clear lack of preparation I think the fine is quite appropriate.


Damm, I didn't mention potatoes or naan bread ... :roll:


And the inadequacy of his plans and preparations are Police [i]allegations, not established facts. This can only be determined by knowledge of the mans fitness, experience and capabilities.[/i]


Yep and they where there getting the gentlemen out; you where not. Who do I think might have more a clue about the situation on the ground? You or the people there? You guessed it, the people on the ground. :wink:

It would be ironic if those who rush to applaud the imposition of this penalty are the same people who complain about living in a nanny state.


Only seen one post about "nanny state" in this thread and that was by Warren. I don't believe he has applauded the imposition of this penalty.

Andrew
Last edited by Aushiker on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby Aushiker » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:36 pm

WarrenH wrote:If you know the distances involved he sounds like he was certainly under resourced, but he media including Police media releases, do look for the worst angles ... to shock us or to wake us up.


How dry would the bush be in that area? Would a total fire ban be place? I assume he planned on cooking those potatoes unless of course he wanted to eat them raw or they where pre-cooked. No mention of equipment in the article but I would assume that was taken into consideration when considering the issuing of the fine.

I also assume such fines can be challenged in court if so desired, so the Police would have or should have been of the view that they have a defensible case. I based that view on how the more informed Police Officers present their position to me when I submitted videos. The quality of the evidence is considered and whether there is a view it will stand up in Court or not.

Some how I suspect that the Police Officer/rescue people might have a bit more of clue about the situation than we do.

Also at least here in WA we have lost (died) a couple of volunteers in recent times who where involved in a rescue in one case and a bushfire in the other. So I don't blame them for taking a strong position. Dying is a high cost to pay for trying to help others IMO. Even more so when it involves a situation which by all accounts appears to have been avoidable.

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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby WarrenH » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:58 pm

Ron and Andrew, I hadn't realised that you had both posted while I was taking my time looking for some shots to post. So my post is out of sync with your posts ... kind-of.

I doubt that the bloke was as ineptly under resourced as the media releases have made out. Even to know that the route was possible to do would have taken a certain amount of careful research, and reading track notes. A solo walker at 29, it's highly unlikely that he is a total mug. The potatoes may have been already cooked.

Never trust the media, including the police media, when it comes to reporting lost bushwalkers and what conditions they've been found in. He may have needed to be contacted, and because he may have been not contactable ... the press release goes out as a standard procedure to encourage the public to keep an eye out for him. Then the media gets it and makes up the missing details as they go along. He may have been cross at the police for reporting him lost, so they hit him with a fine for insulance ... by the time it make an obscure column in the back of the Greenwich Gazette, the same bloke feared for his life from a lost tribe cannibals, who stole the last of his spuds.

I've worked on a police rescue, when I worked as a professional guide, doing radio stuff. This particular search was in the Budawangs. Not once did the police enter the park, they stayed out side the park, not looking for the missing kids. They were hoping that any old bushwalkers would run into the four lost kids. The four kids were the kids of some judges here in Canberra, and the search was deliberately kept out of the media, even though they were well overdue. I cant help but be cynical.

When I referred to the Nanny State ... it's because the Nanny State patronizingly makes out that it 'cares' more about our safety than we ourselves, do.

Warren.

PS, Mind the gap.
Last edited by WarrenH on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby Howzat » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:06 pm

$500 wouldn't cover the cost of the helicopters for an hour. It's only fair that he be held responsible for his actions. Sounds like the opposite of "Nanny-Statism", whatever that is.

WarrenH wrote:Will going into a National Park in NSW after the first of March with out a bullet proof jacket and a hi-viz vest on, be considered touring without adequate equipment?


Whose idea was it to put Ivan Milat in charge of the National Parks in the first place?
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby WarrenH » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:16 pm

Aushiker wrote:How dry would the bush be in that area? Would a total fire ban be place?


There is always some water in the Wolgan River, down on the river it is verdant and heavily vegetated, east of Little Capertee River. On the slopes it is dry sclerophyll with warm temperate rainforest gullies. I've not seen the Wolgan River too dry below Newnes but above Newnes its can be just a trickle and unlinked pools, so the locals tell.

Below where Little Capertee River joins the Wolgan at the main camping ground track crossing, the gorge starts to narrow relatively quickly. The top of the escarpment is about 400-450m above the river. At the area where the Colo Wilderness starts, about 7 kilometres east of Newnes the gorge is narrow but heavily vegetated. A fire in there would be devastating. The region is steep gullies and narrow fissures. This is not too far from where the Wollemi Pine, the Dinosaur Tree is found, in the Capertee Divide.

The escarpment above Jacks Camp. There is no easy way out of the Wolgan Valley with a laden bike. Trouserlord in his recent Wollemi Expedition will attest to that.

Image


The escarpment of Mystery Mountain, across the Wolgan from the Newnes Hotel.

Image


The Wolgan on the edge of the Colo Wilderness not far upstream from Devils Pinch. The Wolgan Valley Fire Trail is 10 metres away.

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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby WarrenH » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:04 pm

Aushiker wrote:How dry would the bush be in that area? Would a total fire ban be place?


Andrew you have a second sense ... and the worst scenario was more than well anticipated by you, Sir.

Hear-say, from the guys operating the PARKAIR chopper. Apparently he lit a signal fire to help the chopper locate him, but when the chopper came to rescue him, the fire was whipped into a larger one which has since spread into the surrounding area. They were sending the chopper, a few trucks and a whole team in today to ensure that the fire is put out.

The law is, who ever starts the fire, is solely responsible for the entire costs and damages associated with the fire and I'm not sure the $500 fine will be enough to cover the whole expense of the operation!

So who is responsible? ... the bloke who lit the fire or the chopper pilot who possibly created the blaze with the choppers down wash?

A three day solo bush walk ... that's now bigger than Ben-Hur.

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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby FatGuts » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:39 am

Howzat wrote:$500 wouldn't cover the cost of the helicopters for an hour. It's only fair that he be held responsible for his actions. Sounds like the opposite of "Nanny-Statism", whatever that is.

WarrenH wrote:Will going into a National Park in NSW after the first of March with out a bullet proof jacket and a hi-viz vest on, be considered touring without adequate equipment?


Whose idea was it to put Ivan Milat in charge of the National Parks in the first place?



Agree on the $500.

My question is, if NSWNPWS considers carrying an Epirb as being adequately prepared other than all the other things he did, would he still get a fine?

They would still have to go rescue him using aircraft and the like, the difference is the time to locate him.
Last edited by FatGuts on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $500 fine for not touring with adequate equipment

Postby uncle arthur » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:06 am

Aushiker wrote:
il padrone wrote:At the time that they found him he still had a kilo of spuds and naan bread ?? Sounds like he had sufficient extra food to my thinking.


The ABC is reporting

Police say the 29-year-old only had a kilo of potatoes and a naan bread in his backpack when he left for the walk on Wednesday afternoon...

"When the man set out he had with him a kilo of potatoes and naan bread," he said.

"We believed the 29-year-old placed himself and the search teams at risk through his lack of planning and preparation, and through carrying inadequate provisions."

Police also allege his intended route, through remote terrain, would have been extremely difficult to complete safely.

They say it would have taken much longer than the man had estimated.


which was my reading of the SMH article as well, even though it was expressed well. Given where he was walking, the distance, the time of the year and that two helicopters etc had to be brought in, and his clear lack of preparation I think the fine is quite appropriate.

Andrew


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