Living with a velomobile

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:51 pm

Rhubarb wrote:This guy rides a quest but it is fitted with the Sinner Bikes hood, same as my mango. He uses a sunglasses camera so the vision is somewhat close to what you see riding with the hood. He also pulls a mean looking trailer behind him.


Thanks for sharing. That is fastolfe at BROL. Interesting trailer that he is pulling. Anyone now about them?

Harry at Sinner Bikes also has a video of the ride.



There is also this video which is a higher quality recording.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLaZfcynaQM&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

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by BNA » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:05 pm

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:05 pm

He rode to Olibollentocht all the way from Leige in Belgium and back. He had a tracker running and you could follow the trip.

I looked in a few times. It was interesting to see his speeds often 25 - 30+ kmh and also how flat the terrain was. Satellite view and street view were fun too. Had to remember its winter there and not as shown by Google of course.

I wonder if he had an alternator or something. I'd see his battery charge drop to 65% and then it would come back up to 100% over a bit of time.

I think there is a thread about his trailer over on BROLL. It's a Radical Designs frame with a box from another manufacturer. It wasn'rt cheap.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:15 pm

A French velo-pilot has been killed. Seems he hit the guard rail going down a mountain pretty fast. There is a translation of the French article here.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:36 pm

A little more on the velorizontal forum velo section. It appears in two places. Bad news of the day and velo safety threads.

As I read it he was a new inexperienced rider. The velo was second hand so condition unknown. He had been advised that he should fit the larger 90 mm brakes but it is not known if he did so.

In any event a very sad occurrence.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:49 pm

A question to the Mango Sports Red Edition owners in particular, did any of you consider a Quest or Quest Carbon? If yes, is there any particular reasons you went Mango instead?

I am curious as the Quests seem more popular at BROL and by all reports are faster.

I assume that there is not a Quest equivalent to the Mango Tour so that explains that choice.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:10 pm

A Mango has a tighter turning circle than a Quest does
Mind you the trisled rotovelo kicks both of them majorly, now just need to wait for the suspended versions to come out...
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:50 pm

Baalzamon wrote:A Mango has a tighter turning circle than a Quest does
Mind you the trisled rotovelo kicks both of them majorly, now just need to wait for the suspended versions to come out...


The Carbon version also lacks lights, enclosed drive train and suspension. At $9,995 starting I am not sure it is really competitive.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Roinik » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:10 pm

It's a pity that Greenspeed ceased production of their full suspension Glyde. At $15k and 30kg it was a little pricey, however with some work and some of the newer materials I'm sure that this could come down substantially.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:22 pm

I do like the look of the Carbon Quest ...

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More at Simply Red.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby DentedHead » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:50 am

Mwah-ha-ha... I have joined the elite ranks of the Velonoughts! (sort of). I'm rather hesitant to show pics of my creation though, as the fairing is nowhere near as nice as I'd envisioned, and the whole thing looks like a boat-shoe or loafer. Seems core-flute is harder to work with than I imagined. Took her for the maiden voyage yesterday, with my brother on the Kodiak, and the boy on the Cub. We mounted a GoPro to the velo, so once I work out how to stick it on YouTube I'll post a link...


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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Bartek » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:09 am

"Interesting trailer that he is pulling. Anyone now about them?"

The trailer is a Taifun you can see more here

http://www.novosport.de/?Produkte:Anh%E4nger:Taifun

Look very nice but also very expensive!
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Riggsbie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:23 am

I did think about a Quest before getting my Mango but they are way too impractical for commuting......you need a 3 lane freeway to make a u-turn ;-)

The Mango came out top on my pros & cons list.....


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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Riggsbie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:24 am

Dent,

C'mon show us some pictures !

If there are no pictures it didn't happen ;-)


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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:54 am

Aushiker wrote:A question to the Mango Sports Red Edition owners in particular, did any of you consider a Quest or Quest Carbon? If yes, is there any particular reasons you went Mango instead?

I am curious as the Quests seem more popular at BROL and by all reports are faster.

I assume that there is not a Quest equivalent to the Mango Tour so that explains that choice.

Andrew


I looked at a quest (and every other make of velo) before choosing the mango. Comparing the mango to the quest, I looked at the following factors:

1. Speed - Of course going faster is one of the things we buy a velo for, but speed is very much contextual. The quest is more aerodynamic thus about 10% faster in terms of straight line speed. Lets park this and get back to it at the end.

2. Price - The price of the base mango and quest are virtually identical. The mango RE is more expensive than the base model mango and quest as it has ultegra / DA drivetrain, CF seat & dash etc. If you optioned up a quest to a similar spec as the RE the price would be very similar. I actually nearly went with the mango sport with most of the RE options to save some money, but went all in, in the end.

3. Weight - The mango RE weighs 29.5 v 34.5kgs for the FG quest. The CF quest saves about 4kgs but I never seriously considered CF quest since I had already exceeded my budget and CF was another €1200 IIRC. You can get a CF Mango too so the mango is still 5kgs lighter, like for like.

4. Manouverability - The bikepaths on my commute have some tight corners which are just manageable in the mango but would require 3 point turns in the quest. These are a real pain if you need to unclip and backpedal up slight hills. The quest has a turning circle of 11.5m v 8.5m on mango.

5. Luggage - Mango Sport / RE has 70 L. Quest has 65L but is not as useable due to the 26inch rear wheel. Its very long and narrow. Mango RE is too but much better than quest. Mango Tour has 130 L and critically it is so much more useable. I don't tour but I do often commute with full change of clothes (including shoes) as well as laptop, spares etc. I'm sure you could get this into a quest too but you may need very long arms to retrieve it from the tail.

6. Size - The mango fits through a standard doorway (just), the quest does not. This was key for me since I was contracting at the time and moving buildings every 6 months. If I ever ended up without secure storage I can always get the mango into the Brisbane Cycle2City facility. The quest would not fit in through the doorway. Yes - I did measure this :-) The quest is also 30 or 35cm longer than a mango, making it more difficult to store and transport inside a vehicle at times.

7. Stability - Due to the wider wheel track and negative camber on the front of the mango, it is somewhat more stable / faster through corners. David Hembrow managed to roll a quest after being used to a mango due to its superior cornering and stability. I had a "moment" in the mango early on, where I was turning right across 3 lanes of oncoming traffic and a merging slip lane, at 40 km/hr. With my focus on oncoming traffic I didn't notice the sharpness of the spoon (V) drain in the road. When the inside wheel hit it, I found myself with a major wheel lift. Thankfully, the negative camber seemed to make it rise up without going over the centre of balance, thus enabling me to slowly and calmly (and quite naturally) steer out, put the wheel back down and continue on. That incident could have been a whole lot different in a quest. I read of a number of quest rollovers at the time, although perhaps this has been mitigated somewhat with the improved rear suspension recently released. Again, both mango and quest have better suspension now, so mango is still ahead stability / cornering wise.

8. Gearing options - The mid drive of the mango does enable more gearing options. I was a little uncertain about the gearing I would need for my hills. The ability to change the mid drive ratios was insurance for me.

9. Speed - So getting back to speed, I am 99.9% sure the mango would be faster for me on my daily commute, which is 90% of my riding. The lower weight, greater cornering speed and increased manouverability makes it faster for stop, start, tight corners commuting. On most of my downhills I actually coast and also need to brake a little to keep the mango at a safe speed. >70km/hr on narrow bike paths or even streets with a 50 or 60km/hr speed limit isn't particularly smart, so the higher top end speed of the quest isn't much use there.

So for me, the mango is actually faster. If you are going to be riding mostly flat open roads, then the quest is going to be faster. In your case for touring, a mango tour loaded up internally would be much more aero than a quest with a trailer.

Now don't get me wrong, the quest is the market leader for a reason, not just its time in the market. It is still very competitive speed wise to the new comers (Evo K and Milan SL) but is much more practical than those too. The mango originally came from the same factory as the quest and was meant to be an even more practical / urban version of the quest. They are both very well made and much refinement has gone into both. In the flat european countries with better cycle paths, the quest is often the best choice. Its all just horses for courses, and the mango is the best horse for my course ;-)
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:22 pm

Rhubarb wrote:
Aushiker wrote:A question to the Mango Sports Red Edition owners in particular, did any of you consider a Quest or Quest Carbon? If yes, is there any particular reasons you went Mango instead?

I am curious as the Quests seem more popular at BROL and by all reports are faster.

I assume that there is not a Quest equivalent to the Mango Tour so that explains that choice.

Andrew


I looked at a quest (and every other make of velo) before choosing the mango. Comparing the mango to the quest, I looked at the following factors:

1. Speed - Of course going faster is one of the things we buy a velo for, but speed is very much contextual. The quest is more aerodynamic thus about 10% faster in terms of straight line speed. Lets park this and get back to it at the end.

2. Price - The price of the base mango and quest are virtually identical. The mango RE is more expensive than the base model mango and quest as it has ultegra / DA drivetrain, CF seat & dash etc. If you optioned up a quest to a similar spec as the RE the price would be very similar. I actually nearly went with the mango sport with most of the RE options to save some money, but went all in, in the end.

3. Weight - The mango RE weighs 29.5 v 34.5kgs for the FG quest. The CF quest saves about 4kgs but I never seriously considered CF quest since I had already exceeded my budget and CF was another €1200 IIRC. You can get a CF Mango too so the mango is still 5kgs lighter, like for like.

4. Manouverability - The bikepaths on my commute have some tight corners which are just manageable in the mango but would require 3 point turns in the quest. These are a real pain if you need to unclip and backpedal up slight hills. The quest has a turning circle of 11.5m v 8.5m on mango.

5. Luggage - Mango Sport / RE has 70 L. Quest has 65L but is not as useable due to the 26inch rear wheel. Its very long and narrow. Mango RE is too but much better than quest. Mango Tour has 130 L and critically it is so much more useable. I don't tour but I do often commute with full change of clothes (including shoes) as well as laptop, spares etc. I'm sure you could get this into a quest too but you may need very long arms to retrieve it from the tail.

6. Size - The mango fits through a standard doorway (just), the quest does not. This was key for me since I was contracting at the time and moving buildings every 6 months. If I ever ended up without secure storage I can always get the mango into the Brisbane Cycle2City facility. The quest would not fit in through the doorway. Yes - I did measure this :-) The quest is also 30 or 35cm longer than a mango, making it more difficult to store and transport inside a vehicle at times.

7. Stability - Due to the wider wheel track and negative camber on the front of the mango, it is somewhat more stable / faster through corners. David Hembrow managed to roll a quest after being used to a mango due to its superior cornering and stability. I had a "moment" in the mango early on, where I was turning right across 3 lanes of oncoming traffic and a merging slip lane, at 40 km/hr. With my focus on oncoming traffic I didn't notice the sharpness of the spoon (V) drain in the road. When the inside wheel hit it, I found myself with a major wheel lift. Thankfully, the negative camber seemed to make it rise up without going over the centre of balance, thus enabling me to slowly and calmly (and quite naturally) steer out, put the wheel back down and continue on. That incident could have been a whole lot different in a quest. I read of a number of quest rollovers at the time, although perhaps this has been mitigated somewhat with the improved rear suspension recently released. Again, both mango and quest have better suspension now, so mango is still ahead stability / cornering wise.

8. Gearing options - The mid drive of the mango does enable more gearing options. I was a little uncertain about the gearing I would need for my hills. The ability to change the mid drive ratios was insurance for me.

9. Speed - So getting back to speed, I am 99.9% sure the mango would be faster for me on my daily commute, which is 90% of my riding. The lower weight, greater cornering speed and increased manouverability makes it faster for stop, start, tight corners commuting. On most of my downhills I actually coast and also need to brake a little to keep the mango at a safe speed. >70km/hr on narrow bike paths or even streets with a 50 or 60km/hr speed limit isn't particularly smart, so the higher top end speed of the quest isn't much use there.

So for me, the mango is actually faster. If you are going to be riding mostly flat open roads, then the quest is going to be faster. In your case for touring, a mango tour loaded up internally would be much more aero than a quest with a trailer.

Now don't get me wrong, the quest is the market leader for a reason, not just its time in the market. It is still very competitive speed wise to the new comers (Evo K and Milan SL) but is much more practical than those too. The mango originally came from the same factory as the quest and was meant to be an even more practical / urban version of the quest. They are both very well made and much refinement has gone into both. In the flat european countries with better cycle paths, the quest is often the best choice. Its all just horses for courses, and the mango is the best horse for my course ;-)


My thoughts *exactly* :) Thanks for not making me type that up too! ;)
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby mozart » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:37 pm

That was well thought out, great read ,Thanks Rhubarb
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:57 pm

Bartek wrote:"Interesting trailer that he is pulling. Anyone now about them?"

The trailer is a Taifun you can see more here

http://www.novosport.de/?Produkte:Anh%E4nger:Taifun

Look very nice but also very expensive!


Most like down to 595 euro once you remove the 19% VAT so not too painful then
I think I'm going to have to get another recumbent and have my cleats midsole once I get my feet fixed up to see if a mango will be viable at all
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:02 pm

My thinking was pretty much as per Rhubarb's comments. I wasn't so concerned about speed though because I knew I wouldn't be very fast no matter what I rode. Currently my trike and velo average speeds are about the same 13 -15 kmh and not unfortunately likely to improve.
I liked the lower weight, better turning circle and the fact that the RE was fully fitted out for the price. I also thought having the mid drive was a good idea as I can alter the gearing and even fit a SRAM dual drive if necessary to get a lower low and a higher high. Albeit by adding a bit of weight. It would be nice for touring for sure and no trouble to switch the normal mid drive in if desired. I also liked the look of the mango more than the quest.

Interestingly Rhubarb mentions his speed down hill. I am still finding I become unstable above about 40 kmh. I can manage almost to 50 and then it only takes a small bump and I'm swerving all over the road taking up two lanes. It doesn't seem to happen with a heavier rider or if I put some weight in the back. I think my rear shock is too strong. The back of the mango sits up and hardly moves when I get in. This means I have almost no castor and I think that's the problem. I suspect fitting an adjustable shock like the Risse will cure the problem.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:05 pm

Baalzamon wrote:
Bartek wrote:"Interesting trailer that he is pulling. Anyone now about them?"

The trailer is a Taifun you can see more here

http://www.novosport.de/?Produkte:Anh%E4nger:Taifun

Look very nice but also very expensive!


Most like down to 595 euro once you remove the 19% VAT so not too painful then
I think I'm going to have to get another recumbent and have my cleats midsole once I get my feet fixed up to see if a mango will be viable at all


Got to remember that the price is just for the fibreglass box. You still need to buy the Radical Designs trailer to mate it up to.
This one I believe.

https://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/product ... v-trekking

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby DentedHead » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:14 pm

Riggsbie wrote:Dent,

C'mon show us some pictures !

If there are no pictures it didn't happen ;-)


*Sighs*... Ok, pics in my usual thread.


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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:42 pm

mozart wrote:That was well thought out, great read ,Thanks Rhubarb


Yes it was indeed. Thanks Rhubarb for taking the time to put together a comprehensive response. Thinking about this a bit more I guess the Strada is probably the closer competitor to the Mango Sport.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:44 pm

Aushiker wrote:
mozart wrote:That was well thought out, great read ,Thanks Rhubarb


Yes it was indeed. Thanks Rhubarb for taking the time to put together a comprehensive response. Thinking about this a bit more I guess the Strada is probably the closer competitor to the Mango Sport.

Andrew


There is an interesting history there.

Originally the Mango design was owned by the same crowd that makes the Quest. They sold it to Sinner who, up until that point, only made recumbent bicycles. What Sinner didn't do was ensure that the makers of the Quest were not going to continue to make something using the Mango's design or very, very similar... which is exactly what they did, hence the Strada.

There probably is a lawsuit there but Sinner can't afford to fight for the Intellectual Property rights.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Roinik » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:55 am

Andrew,

Based on your entries in the WA threads, it sounds like you should consider starting off with a RV instead of something exotic. At least with the RV you can use it as a bit of a battering ram until people get used to something the size of a refrigerator cruising along the PSP (i.e. start riding single file) and through all of those pinch points along your routes through the CBD. There is still a red RV with Rholoff rear hub for sale in Sydney for $4500. It's not pretty as it looks like it's been used as a battering ram on a commuter route as well. I'm sure the exposed chain and the voids underneath can be covered with some creative use of some corflute and tape (see the pictures of the green bean for inspiration). You may be able to get it for $4000 if he is desperate enough to dispose of it.

Paint the shark face on the front and some fake cannons and you're in business.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby recumbenteer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:55 pm

""you should consider starting off with a RV instead of something exotic. At least with the RV you can use it as a bit of a battering ram until people get used to something the size of a refrigerator cruising along the PSP ""....... I resemble that remark!! LOL :D

Yes its true, the RV, being locally produced, is much cheaper than, but nowhere near as 'exotic' as those "Euro-velos" BUT IMHO is VERY robust, will take a belting(kiddy touching),spoon drains/ped ramps/ some bollards, Cooks river CP has some HORRID areas etc., are a PITA but once you get your attack angle worked out, scrapes dont create absolute fear...much....LOL....a small bash plate helps.
is ALWAYS a head turner...'cause its "the size of a fridge" ... pity ALL velos aren't as cold 'on the inside' though. :wink:

Also, IMHO this business about suspension, yeh it must be nice (the amount of velonaut talk on BROL about the RV being the only velo NOT having any??)but how many pot holes do you hit dragging the weight of suspension uphills.??. ..a good tyre with a respectable air pressure works for ME! :mrgreen: more parts..more maintenance if you ask me.I'm a fan of KISS engineering. 8)
12 years on an un-suspended trike I reckon suspension may be nice, but for ME, not necessary, so therefore.. I'm not missing it.


Any ideas on who can/how to, paint the sharkmouth on HDPE?? Some large decals on Ebay,maybe?
The Grean Bean is now in Sydney 'n terrorising the roadies......well..... on the flats 'n downhills. :mrgreen:
An RV would be great in WA, not too many 'real' hills in Perth lol
I rode a trike there for 3years, many fond memories 8)
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby DentedHead » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:06 am

...instead of something exotic...


Er... how does this rate on the exotic scale? It's.. um.. well, it's rare at least!

Image
Image

LBS has a cafe attached. I'm thinking a ride across town for a coffee is in order. It's not yet been on a ride longer than 5kms.


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