Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

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Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby TomBikes » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:38 pm

I'm building a bike from an old frame and I have done some measurements and I'm a little unclear of what will fit and such.
The frame is a Malvern Star Renegade.

The old quill stem was a 22mm, and this is the only cheap stem I could find the stem. I plan to make a ss get around town bike so i was wondering if this would work with bull bars/track drops, despite the lack of a... forward angled thingo (unsure of the name, please do tell). If it would not are there any ways to convert it? or things i could use or am i forced into buying expensive 'vintage no brand 22mm french stems'.

Or

Is there some way that I could fit a 22.2mm such as this: This stem and handle bar combo

My second question is whether I could fit a wheelset such as This.

The 'A' of the back of the frame is 34-38cm (start to end of dropout) on the bottom and 36-37 at the rear end of the triangle. The back is 12cm between the dropouts and the front is 9.5cm. I am highly newbish at this measurement stuff so answers and advice/help/teachings are highly welcomed.

If I have missed something important please do tell and if my measurement aren't clear enough (pretty clear in my head but then again :roll: ) then also do tell and I will figure out something.

Many Thanks,

Tom
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by BNA » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:44 pm

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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby panurge » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:44 pm

TomBikes wrote:
Is there some way that I could fit a 22.2mm such as this: This stem and handle bar combo



I've known people who have sanded 22.2mm components down to 22mm. I don't know anybody who has ever done it more than once which strongly implies it's quite a character forming experience.
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby high_tea » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:22 pm

Are you sure the stem is original? Could it be that the frame is intended to fit a 22.2? It sounds like a wierd thing for what I gather is an 80s Australian brand manufactured in Asia to have. I'm no expert, though.

Re the wheelset: 12cm at the rear is 120mm, which is standard track/singlespeed spacing. 9.5cm, I'll round that up to 100mm which is stock standard for the front. That wheelset should fit just fine between the dropouts. Here's where life gets interesting, though. As it was a mountain bike, it was probably intended to take 26" wheels. The wheels you linked to are 700C wheels, which are bigger. Doesn't mean it won't work, though. I picked up a Repco Fastrak (something like that: some junky, clunky old MTB) The clearances are *huge* on that thing! 700C wheels fit just fine. You don't mention what kind of brakes it has. If they are cantilever brakes (two separate arms, one attached to each side of the fork (front) or rear triangle), making 700C wheels work will require effort out of all proportion to the value of the frame. If, like mine, it's really clunky and has caliper brakes (a single caliper with a bolt through the middle), you may be in luck. I just measured the chainstay(the horizontal part of the rear triangle) on my Fastrak, though, and it's 420mm from roughly the middle of the dropout to the other end of the tube. 38cm sounds dicey. If you can get your hands on a 700C wheel without spending any money, I'd suggest trying first. Failing that, there are probably 26" singlespeed wheelsets out there. I don't know much about them.

Anyway, it sounds like a fun little project. I'm planning something similar with the mighty Fastrak: singlespeed it, maybe put drops on it. I do actually have a set of track drops that would fit the original stem: you're giving me ideas :D Dunno what I'd do about brake levers though - I don't have any that would go on bar tops and the idea is to keep the expenditure as close as possible to $0, that being the approximate value of the frame.

HTH - good luck!
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby TomBikes » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:32 pm

It has mounting spots for calipers, no spots for cantilevers like on my cx bike. I think I'll just measure my cx wheelset and make some cardboard cut outs as I spent over an hour today getting my brakes just right (the extra wide tires knock the brakes despite being empty :( ). You theory on the stem seems quite plausible because the stem fits quite loosely. I'll wrap some paper up and see what happens. Worst case, I end up with alot of sanding on my hands.

Will keep you posted. Would love to hear about you fix up too!
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby TomBikes » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:39 am

My bad the chain stay is actually 44cm. I was measuring the distance between the drop out and the metal rod which connects both ends, basically, the usable part of the frame in terms of wheels. Didn't know it was drop out to BB.

The head tube looks to be 22.2-22.3mm (depending on how accurate i decide to be). I used some string to find the center and used a ruler and found it to be roughly 22.2mm. Saved my self about $40 because i no longer need that old French Cinella stem. I can get bars and stem for 50 now!
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby HLC » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:19 pm

I'm assuming the frame you have looks a lot like this...

at least that's what google tells me..

Image

Anyway, this is a mountain bike frame. Whilst 100mm Front and 120mm Rear spacings are single speed, the 700c wheels may not fit. Plus they will look suitably ridiculous.

Not to mention putting on the Drop Bar/Quill stem combo that you posted. That will fit too, but also look quite silly!

Before you invest any more time / money into your renegade, get yourself an old Road or track frame (if you can find one cheap enough) and build that up as your Single Speed!

It'll make your life a lot easier for component choice, and will probably end up looking quite good!
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby HappyHumber » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:43 pm

Early MTBs often had BMX sized quill stems or at least what BMXs were using thenabouts in the late 70s/early80s. The difference is on the BMX/Old MTB 21.15 mm (.833") steerer tube inner diameter versus the more ubiquitous "adult" bike standard of 22.2mm (7/8")

Sheldon's cribsheet on the matter.

I have a couple of mid 1980s Malvern Star "Trailrider" MTB frames. These are of the early MTB type with a horizontal top tube and longer wheelbase and they fit the 21.15mm BMX standard. These bikes are probably older than the pic posted by HLC. I did find a pic googling for "Malvern Star Renegade" which looked more my vintage... but was only a crappy cached Gumtree image I couldn't get any more info on or higher res to confirm.

+1 to HLC's comment anyway. Be sure what you have before you go throwing $$ at it. Post some pics if you can. I'd say a SS MTB with 26" wheels is still a relatively easy project.
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby TomBikes » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:20 pm

Just got a few snaps, also got a few shots of my cx frame for reference.
The frame side on front on rear

Headset tube

Fork compared to CX fork

Chainstay compared to CX chainstay

If you need any more angles or shots just tell.
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby foo on patrol » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:36 am

TomBikes wrote:I'll wrap some paper up and see what happens!


Please tell me you're not thinking of spacing the strut if it is to narrow! :shock:

Foo
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby TomBikes » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:11 am

God no Foo, I was just going to add a a smidge of width to the old stem to see if it would still fit, as it is a 22mm on a china made Aussie brand bike. Rather odd right?
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby high_tea » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:31 pm

Judging from the pics, it's no MTB. Steel double chainring cranks and caliper brakes suggest it occupied a similar spot to my FastTrak in the bike pecking order: somewhere fairly close to the bottom. That won't stop me having a bit of fun, though. I wouldn't sink a heap of money into it, but throwing on some parts I've got lying around, lashing on a chain and brake cables/pads, sure, why not? People spend way more doing up old Travellers and seem to have fun doing it and riding them afterwards. More power to them, I say.
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Re: Help with quill stem sizing and wheel sizing

Postby TomBikes » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:21 pm

Bike tool set came in today so I managed to take the BB off as well as the fork. Fairly easy to reassemble. Now I just need to degrease them and put them back when the time comes.

I got some pic and created some measurements so maybe your experienced eyes can give me a hand.
Frame
Rear
Fork
Now, the measurements are a little rough, oh and I forgot to add that the drop out it 4cm long if that matters.

Thanks!
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