High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:35 am

The Guardian (UK) has an interesting article looking at the topic of high-viz clothing and cycling. In 2010 an Australian study looking at the stame subject, well night-time use of high-viz to be more specific found that
that reflective ankle and knee markings are particularly valuable at night, while fluorescent clothing is not. Cyclists wearing fluorescent clothing may be at particular risk if they incorrectly believe themselves to be conspicuous to drivers at night.


I ride Audax rides and we are required to wear high-viz on night rides.

Thoughts?

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19412
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

by BNA » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:45 am

BNA
 

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby grantw » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:45 am

Technically we are required to wear a "reflective garment" on night audax rides, they can be fluoro but its the retroreflectivity that is important not the colour. The Audax Guidelines are pretty clear.
Image
User avatar
grantw
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:22 am
Location: Wollongong

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby im_no_pro » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:48 am

There's a slang term for it in the U.K. that pretty much sums up my feeling on it's value, trying to remember what it was....

edit:
Got it: Urban Camouflage.
master6 wrote: Moderators are like Club Handicappers; I often think they are wrong, but I dont want the job.
User avatar
im_no_pro
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5647
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:29 pm
Location: Geelong

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby il padrone » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:54 am

I never bother too much with 'hi-viz'. Bold coloured clothing - yes, at times. Reflective striped clothing - yes. Bold riding behaviour is very important as well IMHO. Very good lights at night - yes.

Audax's lighting rules are a good deal of overkill, but you need to know the history to that.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 17510
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby grantw » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:07 pm

Didn't someone post a link recently to an amusing piece of satire where a local council was painting everything Hi Viz to prevent people bumping into large obstacles, like buildings :D

When on rides I seem to notice people wearing red as standing out more, goes to that point in the article about contrast with the surroundings I imagine. Or perhaps it's just my subconcious memories of Kelly LeBrock.
Image
User avatar
grantw
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:22 am
Location: Wollongong

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby twizzle » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Hi-Viz (fluorescent) requires UV light to fluoresce, therefore doesn't work at night. Reflective strips on the clothing are a different matter.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Howzat » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:15 pm

twizzle wrote:Hi-Viz (fluorescent) requires UV light to fluoresce, therefore doesn't work at night

Exactly. Hi Viz really does work during the day. You wouldn't expect it to be more visible than any other colour at night.
User avatar
Howzat
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:08 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby outnabike » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:39 pm

Just my experience,
But I reckon high vis is not all its cracked up to be. We imagine that it is great, as we see workers etc wearing it, but it doesn't seem to stop vehicles shaving riders or constantly tooting horns at them. I reckon I could wear a toy helicopter on my helmet with a flashing light on every rotor end, and it will only affect the good motorist.
In nature colour is well used as camouflage. I know this, and I do use brighter clothing in dark conditions , but the empirical evidence of smidsy's we read about, indicate that the average driver has his mind in neutral and just looks, but doesn't see.
Being a pedalling motorist most riders have a better look out for our counterparts, rather than just being in a hurry. You some times get the feeling that with all the workers out there wearing high viz that it may just add to the kaleidoscope of colour that effects our vista as we drive.
outnabike
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby bychosis » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:47 pm

Default Night time garb for road workers is white overalls with reflective tape. Its all about the reflective stuff and a light colour helps a bit too. I dont bother with hi vis for riding, but do have a red, yellow and light/bright blue shirts in regular use. In rainy or poor light conditions I'll put a hivis cover on my commuter pack.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby il padrone » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:02 pm

outnabike wrote:but the empirical evidence of smidsy's we read about

I reckon a very high proprtion of these are really SMIDGAFs :|
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 17510
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby RonK » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:19 pm

Not your normal hi-viz. I took a set of these Foskas jerseys on tour with me recently, and received numerous comments from motorists about how visible they are.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 4929
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Howzat » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:14 pm

That's not a hi-vis jersey - this is a hi-vis jersey.

Image
Last edited by Howzat on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Howzat
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:08 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Howzat » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:19 pm

outnabike wrote:We imagine that it is great, as we see workers etc wearing it, but it doesn't seem to stop vehicles shaving riders or constantly tooting horns at them.

Yeah, hi-vis won't change bogan driving habits. Not sure what would - blue and white checks, maybe. But as a driver, I see the hi-vis-wearing cyclists much more easily.

Update: Image
Image
User avatar
Howzat
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:08 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby RonK » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:13 pm

Howzat wrote:That's not a hi-vis jersey -

Ouch - turn it off...
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 4929
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby fatdudeonabike » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:53 pm

Howzat wrote:That's not a hi-vis jersey - this is a hi-vis jersey.

Image


Thats ugly as balls. But I love that their profits go to bike safety projects. I'd consider getting on of those actually.
fatdudeonabike
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Toyopet » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:11 pm

Agree that Hi Viz is not much use at night.
Reflective is what you need at night - 3M scotchlite or similar.

Does it work?
There was a long term study of NZ motorcyle accidents published in the British Medical Journal.
This study suggests that wearing Hi Viz or reflective reduces the risk of accident by 37%
http://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857
Similar risk reduction probably applies to cyclists too.
User avatar
Toyopet
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby il padrone » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:35 pm

It'd be good to see a study into the risk reduction of simply riding wide to claim the lane (with good lights at night of course)
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 17510
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:42 pm

I've got various reflective bits scattered around bike, bag and clothes, I'm not shy about pumping lumens but bright clothes do not blow my hair back.

Strong reds and blues and riding where people expect to see something has worked pretty well for me so far.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25275
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:57 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB3lGxIhtCw&feature[/youtube]

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19412
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby podoco » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:06 pm

Howzat wrote:
outnabike wrote:We imagine that it is great, as we see workers etc wearing it, but it doesn't seem to stop vehicles shaving riders or constantly tooting horns at them.

Yeah, hi-vis won't change bogan driving habits. Not sure what would - blue and white checks, maybe. But as a driver, I see the hi-vis-wearing cyclists much more easily.

Update: Image
Image


Is the blue and white check vest legal in Aus??
podoco
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:30 pm

Wasn't this vest banned from sale by the courts?
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves
User avatar
The 2nd Womble
 
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Howzat » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:30 am

il padrone wrote:It'd be good to see a study into the risk reduction of simply riding wide to claim the lane

Bags not being in the control group! :D
User avatar
Howzat
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:08 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby twizzle » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:02 pm

Equisafety registered "POLITE" as an Australian trademark last March.


Sent from my iThingy...
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby wombatK » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:47 pm

Are these audax rules - reflective garments the rules you refer to ?
Audax Australia – Reflective Garments Guidelines

Minimum requirement
Riders should ensure that the reflective garment uses retroreflective1 materials which are not less than 10mm wide and are placed horizontally across the front and back of the rider (refer picture 1) or from the shoulder to the waist (refer picture 2) or have an equivalent amount of retroreflective material on the front and back (picture 3).
Reflective piping is not considered sufficient.

Best Practise
It is recommended that riders use retroreflective garments which satisfy the Australian Standard for high visibility night (Class N) garments. These garments will be made from retroreflective materials which are not less than 50mm wide and will either (i) encircle the waist with additional strips over each shoulder to waist level or (ii) have two 50mm strips encircle the waist/chest and strip over each shoulder (but not full length to the waist).

If so, they seem to be a little on the soft side. In our litigious society, it would be very understandable if the audax rides mandated Class D/N garments (i.e. garments for both day and night hi-vis).

With shooters now being set loose in NSW National Parks, I suspect having 50 mm wide reflective material would be a
very smart idea. Too many animals have eyes 10 mm or bigger - so maybe less chance of being mistaken for an animal by a bogan with a spotlight if you have 50 mm width reflectors.

Cheers
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5096
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby il padrone » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:08 pm

Howzat wrote:
il padrone wrote:It'd be good to see a study into the risk reduction of simply riding wide to claim the lane

Bags not being in the control group! :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUKZipHuUJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUNKox4-W90

No fluoro, hi-viz, reflective, bells, whistles nor disco lights. But notice how the traffic behaves. See cyclist, change lane, pass. No grief.

Everybody seems to think it is so much more dangerous, when in fact it makes your cycling so much easier and safer :roll:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 17510
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Next

Return to Cycling Safety and Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: human909



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist