Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby RobGrinter » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:40 am

jzr wrote:@Rob from HTA...

Do you envisage the price of your 500s to reduce at all once the 510 is on your inventory - namely red premium bundle?

I've got one already but a friend is looking.


Edge 500s have come down a bit now, RRP on the Red Premium is now $369. We are at $349.

To be honest we are probably not the cheapest in town now as all our stock has gone in a sale back in Oct & Dec. So any orders for 500s have to be specially ordered in.

@DoogleDave - Again, only a slight decrease of $50 on the Edge 800's - 800 Naked was $499, now $449

The debate to upgrade or not upgrade will be well played out here, however I dont see a lot of value in the older 500/800 at the moment unless of course you can get a smashing clearance price. We had the 500 bundle at $279 and 800 bundle at $479 and they were all snapped quickly.

To keep at the cutting edge here we bail out of obsolete product very very quickly. So it is Edge 510/810 season around here. However I am aware that the Edge 500/800 may still be of interest.

We have scrutinised the new products here and we are struggling to see much improvement in the Edge 810 over the 800 if the tracking is of no interest. However the Edge 510 with colour and touch screen plus the tracking ability is certainly a jump over the Edge 500.
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by BNA » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:50 am

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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:50 am

RobGrinter wrote: We have scrutinised the new products here and we are struggling to see much improvement in the Edge 810 over the 800 if the tracking is of no interest. However the Edge 510 with colour and touch screen plus the tracking ability is certainly a jump over the Edge 500.


My thoughts from that dcrainmaker review as well. If I have to upgrade my Edge 705 I'm best to go to the 800. But that if I was to upgrade in the next week or so. After that the prices I've spotted may go up and eventually only the 810 will be available as well.

I'm just wondering if this is an attempt by Garmin to release what seems a new product but is actually an upgrade whilst they continue development on the Edge 900 line
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby sogood » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:56 am

boss wrote:My iPhone gets a lock on GPS within 5 seconds of the Strava app booting.

iPhone uses assisted GPS ie. Via the mobile network.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby RobGrinter » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:01 pm

Baalzamon wrote:
RobGrinter wrote: We have scrutinised the new products here and we are struggling to see much improvement in the Edge 810 over the 800 if the tracking is of no interest. However the Edge 510 with colour and touch screen plus the tracking ability is certainly a jump over the Edge 500.


My thoughts from that dcrainmaker review as well. If I have to upgrade my Edge 705 I'm best to go to the 800. But that if I was to upgrade in the next week or so. After that the prices I've spotted may go up and eventually only the 810 will be available as well.

I'm just wondering if this is an attempt by Garmin to release what seems a new product but is actually an upgrade whilst they continue development on the Edge 900 line


Yes you are concurring with my point; Edge 800 on sale now is a good option. When the 800 is no longer on sale, the $50 difference suggests that the 810 is not only the best, but probably the only option. (PS, we are sold out days ago, so there is no sales pitch here)

Edge 900 !. Thats like saying the iPhone 4s is only out whilst they develop the iPhone 5. Probably going to ALWAYS be the case as that's the way Technology circles work. It would hardly be a bold statement to suggest that there is an iPhone 6 being developed as we speak.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby RobGrinter » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:02 pm

810s are arriving in store tomorrow.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby Xplora » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:59 pm

I think Baalz was trying to say that the 810 wasn't a giant leap forward, it's just a better featured 800? I have to agree, after reading through the dcrainmaker review there just seems to be antagonism against the new Bluetooth protocols and poorly executed new ideas like the weather - ANT+ has terrible support outside the cycling community, and I think we'd be better off with a broader access alternative to enable more competition ESPECIALLY in the powermeter market.

In the end, I'm going to be going with whatever Trek supports, because that's Duotrap integration for you... but it's frustrating that I must buy a Garmin AND a new phone for all this stuff to get going. I don't think there is really an appreciation that if you want mid tier EVERYTHING, you'll have to spend 5K *and only half of that is the bike*. Kit, shoes, pedals, garmin, more kit, lights, helmet... not all of us want to buy a datapoint masquerading as a phone. Almost wonder why Garmin isn't just building phones at this point :idea:
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby RobGrinter » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:15 pm

Xplora wrote:........ not all of us want to buy a data point masquerading as a phone. Almost wonder why Garmin isn't just building phones at this point :idea:

Wholeheartedly agree, said the same thing myself just the other day.

However if you have a 705 or older, then its a good option.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby RobGrinter » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:24 pm

Garmin 810s have arrived today.

Been playing around with one for half hour or so.

Software has some improvements.
Cannot check the new app as yet called Garmin Connect Mobile as it isnt released until 10/1 USA time, so we will be able to report back tomorrow on the tracking feature hopefully.

Out Front mount comes with the Performance bundle only, plus it comes with the usual 2 regular mounts. However the naked only comes with the 2 standard mounts.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby sogood » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:35 pm

Xplora wrote:... not all of us want to buy a datapoint masquerading as a phone. Almost wonder why Garmin isn't just building phones at this point :idea:

They did a while back didn't they? Not surprised they aren't and is now tackling the recreation/sports market where they now have a sector carved out. I am not sure they'll be successful at competition with Samsung and Apple amongst other known names. But the convergence of functionalities b/n smartphones and these sports trackers is alarming.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby jcjordan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:35 pm

Xplora wrote:I think Baalz was trying to say that the 810 wasn't a giant leap forward, it's just a better featured 800? I have to agree, after reading through the dcrainmaker review there just seems to be antagonism against the new Bluetooth protocols and poorly executed new ideas like the weather - ANT+ has terrible support outside the cycling community, and I think we'd be better off with a broader access alternative to enable more competition ESPECIALLY in the powermeter market.

In the end, I'm going to be going with whatever Trek supports, because that's Duotrap integration for you... but it's frustrating that I must buy a Garmin AND a new phone for all this stuff to get going. I don't think there is really an appreciation that if you want mid tier EVERYTHING, you'll have to spend 5K *and only half of that is the bike*. Kit, shoes, pedals, garmin, more kit, lights, helmet... not all of us want to buy a datapoint masquerading as a phone. Almost wonder why Garmin isn't just building phones at this point :idea:


As it currently stands ANT+ is a open licence protocol, ie you don't pay a fee per unit to the patent owner.

Currently all bluetooth protocols (there are about 8 currently being used across various markets) are all owned an licenced. This means that there would be a fee put unit. On a Trek like I have it would require 3 - Garmin, duotap & Power2Max
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby stinhambo » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:50 pm

sogood wrote:I am not sure they'll be successful at competition with Samsung and Apple amongst other known names. But the convergence of functionalities b/n smartphones and these sports trackers is alarming.


What convergence? I want to understand what you mean before sticking my oar in.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby Xplora » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:03 pm

sogood wrote: I am not sure they'll be successful at competition with Samsung and Apple amongst other known names. But the convergence of functionalities b/n smartphones and these sports trackers is alarming.

Apple pretty much created a segment with the iPhone, it CAN be done. Android is an easy ship to jump onto, I'd definitely get a Garmin phone if it was the size of an Edge 800. My current phone is about the same size. I have a feeling that GPS must be a much smaller "feature" for your average phone user than we realise. The additional battery life you get when using a dedicated GPS can't be understated, but if we're pairing BT to Edges, won't the benefits of having separate phones and GPS be wasted? What kind of battery life can you expect from a Galaxy 3 with phone and BT turned on? The only whinge I can imagine would be dudes like Padrone doing a 12 hour tour and needing his phone to send location updates to his blog every 5 minutes, can a phone cope with that level of connectivity (the Edge 810 could).

It just seems that there are too many combined features on the devices, and phones aren't THAT hard to build.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby stinhambo » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:53 pm

Xplora wrote:I have a feeling that GPS must be a much smaller "feature" for your average phone user than we realise.


Mapping is huge for smartphone users. Just look at the furore over the Apple Maps debacle.

Xplora wrote:The additional battery life you get when using a dedicated GPS can't be understated, but if we're pairing BT to Edges, won't the benefits of having separate phones and GPS be wasted?


I haven't seen a convincing use case scenario for it yet but then I haven't been to the Garmin site recently to check.

Xplora wrote:What kind of battery life can you expect from a Galaxy 3 with phone and BT turned on? The only whinge I can imagine would be dudes like Padrone doing a 12 hour tour and needing his phone to send location updates to his blog every 5 minutes, can a phone cope with that level of connectivity (the Edge 810 could).


I get 3 hours for every 25% of battery on the Galaxy S3 but that's using JuiceDefender which allows you to switch off WiFi and 3G but will quickly switch them on for syncing purposes.

Xplora wrote:It just seems that there are too many combined features on the devices, and phones aren't THAT hard to build.


I'm sure that's why mobile phone building is just a hobby...
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby Xplora » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:59 am

stinhambo wrote:I'm sure that's why mobile phone building is just a hobby...

You know that's being facetious... the cost of the cheap phones definitely confirms that it is not hard to develop a 3G or 4G phone if you are prepared to charge 500 bucks for it. On contract, 1000 is easy for most people to swallow.

Mobile development isn't a hobby level activity but it's certainly within the grasp of Garmin.

Stin, is that potentially 10-12 hours of Galaxy just using it as a phone and GPS? Or just a GPS?

One has to wonder if an SMS with location info "5kms along Windsor Rd past Bella Vista" would be enough for the "livetracking AKA my wife is paranoid" aspect. Definitely better to email for training etc.

Just realised that it would be a great tool to track meetups and also go nyah nyah to mates who weren't allowed to ride hehehehhehe
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby sogood » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:48 pm

stinhambo wrote:What convergence? I want to understand what you mean before sticking my oar in.

Increasing features e.g. GPS and various sports related functions.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby sogood » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:55 pm

Xplora wrote:...but if we're pairing BT to Edges, won't the benefits of having separate phones and GPS be wasted? What kind of battery life can you expect from a Galaxy 3 with phone and BT turned on?... It just seems that there are too many combined features on the devices, and phones aren't THAT hard to build.

I think there are two points here,
1) BT has been evolving. The latest power saving design with the latest BT v4.0 is pretty impressive. A giant leap over past BT power consumption.
2) I agree that phones are easy to build these days but to build a phone with good interface and cross compatibilities isn't that easy. And getting it marketed through telcos worldwide is another restriction. Fundamentally, I think Garmin is treading cautiously on the phone market. It's not their area of strength. Otherwise, go for it!
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby Red Rider » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:01 pm

At the end of the day the new features are a decent upgrade, and I think they are really nifty, but most of them 99% of us would barely ever use. The only thing that would get used regularly is the auto uploads. That's the one thing I wish my current unit has, and I'm sure the cheaper units will have this in good time.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby jzr » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:36 pm

Summary from BikeRadar review of Edge 510:

The new Garmin Edge 510 isn't exactly the comprehensive overhaul some people were expecting, and aside from the connectivity aspects we don't see much reason for current Edge 500 owners to switch unless they're regularly moving the unit between multiple bikes and really want different screens for each. We're also a little disappointed in the touchscreen's legibility in bright sunlight.

Even so, owners of older Garmin units – or GPS holdouts who haven't quite taken the plunge – will find a lot to like here, particularly if the current 500 seemed too minimal and the Edge 800 too excessive.


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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby winstonw » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:49 pm

I've been using Strava on my android 4.0.4 smartie recently. A while back, it drained the battery real quick.
Today I did a big ride with 6h20m in the saddle, and made 10mins worth of calls, and only half drained the battery.
I am impressed...
Though I wasn't wearing a HRM nor using a power meter.
I was able to upload the ride immediately upon finishing (and get some kudos :)), something you cannot do as conveniently with a garmin I believe.
Maybe smart phones are more of a risk to Garmin than v.v.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby DaveOZ » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:51 pm

Why didn't they just add a simple function to upload to Strava?

I realise they are pushing Garmin connect but surely they should embrace Strava as most of their customers use it.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby petal665 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:08 am

Picked up an 810 from my LBS for $100 cheaper than HTU. I know they didn't make much/anything on the sale, but buying from the internet isn't always the cheapest.
Live tracking should be fun to play with for a week or so.
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Re: Garmin 510 / 810 leaked

Postby Baalzamon » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:11 am

I've contacted one of my LBS to see what they can do for the Garmin 810. I know someone who has been loyal to their bike shop and got the premium package for a crazy price. Bikebug has the straight 810 for $449
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