The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Questions about purchasing bicycles and parts

Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby simonn » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:36 am

jacks1071 wrote:If the price gap is reduced, and you have to wait up to a month for the order - is the OS option not loosing some of the shine?


Why is this a good thing?
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by BNA » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:30 am

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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:30 am

Why I love shopping online ... innovation :)



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Last edited by Aushiker on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby il padrone » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:07 pm

Great idea, thanks for that Andrew. Any idea whether this is coming to us here in Aus? Seems that it'd be ideal to tie in to the 7-11 store network.


(BTW, the youtube link did not show up for me, had to look at your source code.)
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:44 pm

il padrone wrote:(BTW, the youtube link did not show up for me, had to look at your source code.)


Hopefully now fixed.

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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:43 pm

I've read the first couple of pages and the last couple of pages, so I apologise if my question has already been covered.
Firstly - I realise that I'm not buying high end stuff from overseas. I ride my Giant Hybrid as it was when it came out of the shop. But certainly in the low end stuff that I have bought (I've spent about 400 bucks on peripherals) - I haven't noticed a huge difference in pricing. I've been looking at GPS units, and in some cases I can find them cheaper here than they are overseas.

(I have ordered clothes from overseas - but thats because, as my username says, I'm fat. Much of this gear was ordered because I couldn't find big sizes in Australia.)

So:
- what kinds of things do people buy from overseas?
- whats the price difference at which you order from overseas? (in the few things I've looked at where there was a price difference, it's never been worth more than 10-20% - so for that little difference, I'll order it locally).
- has anyone had any major warranty issues with stuff ordered from overseas?
- is everyone just using Wiggle? What sites are you using where Wiggle don't stock what you needs?

Thanks all.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby Ross » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:39 am

A popular road bike tyre Continental GP4000 is around $100 at LBS (if you can find a shop that actually stocks them) and around $40 o/s. I probably use 4 sets (pairs) a year.
Dura Ace chain is around $80 or more at LBS and $36 o/s. I use 4 or 5 a year
Shimano yellow road cleats $35-$40 in LBS and $20 o/s. I use 4 or 5 a year

That's just a couple of prices on consumable stuff. When you get 'upgraditis' and change groupsets or buy carbon wheels then there is some serious savings to be made from buying o/s. If you are just riding a hybrid and going to the shop for a loaf of bread or commuting to work a few times a week then you won't consume as much stuff and won't want/need carbon wheels and the like.

Wiggle is just one shop, there are many others but they tend to only stock parts for road and mountain bikes and not much if anything for hybrid type bikes. On the right hand side of the BNA home page there is a listing of a few online shops.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby boss » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:25 am

The prices on the consumables you mention aren't as far out as you suggest.

I buy gp4000s tyres for $49 from a local bike shop. Cell and CE often have sub $40 deals.

My yellow cleats were $25 from my local.

Haven't bought a DA chain. But they're $53 from my local.

I am a pragmatist on this. I shop local when it makes sense, and I try to always check prices.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby jcjordan » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:37 am

boss wrote:The prices on the consumables you mention aren't as far out as you suggest.

I buy gp4000s tyres for $49 from a local bike shop. Cell and CE often have sub $40 deals.

My yellow cleats were $25 from my local.

Haven't bought a DA chain. But they're $53 from my local.

I am a pragmatist on this. I shop local when it makes sense, and I try to always check prices.

Makes me wonder we're they are getting their stock from.

As of 2 months ago shimano Australia whole sale prime on a DA chain was $58
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby Ross » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:56 am

Well you must have good LBS' that do good prices. It's not only about price, it's about range, variety and convenience. I can sit at the computer and in a matter of minutes compare prices and availablity for a dozen shops, press the button to order and generally the goods will turn up on my doorstep within a week. With a LBS you have to ride/drive 20 or more kilometres to the nearest one, find somewhere to park (maybe have to pay to park), wait for the sales assistant to finish serving other customers to find out the product(s) you want are twice the price of o/s or aren't in stock.

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... oad-cleats Club price $36 RRP $40

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... peed-chain $87 RRP $89.99

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... yre-700x23 $48 RRP $99.99 (price isn't actually too bad on these but most LBS sell them for around $100)
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby Ross » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:05 am

Aushiker wrote:Why I love shopping online ... innovation :)



Andrew


I think Australia Post has a similar thng in some cities already? Good idea linking it with a supermarket so that people buy stuff while they are collecting their parcels.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby boss » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:09 am

Ross wrote:Well you must have good LBS' that do good prices. It's not only about price, it's about range, variety and convenience. I can sit at the computer and in a matter of minutes compare prices and availablity for a dozen shops, press the button to order and generally the goods will turn up on my doorstep within a week. With a LBS you have to ride/drive 20 or more kilometres to the nearest one, find somewhere to park (maybe have to pay to park), wait for the sales assistant to finish serving other customers to find out the product(s) you want are twice the price of o/s or aren't in stock.

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... oad-cleats Club price $36 RRP $40

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... peed-chain $87 RRP $89.99

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... yre-700x23 $48 RRP $99.99 (price isn't actually too bad on these but most LBS sell them for around $100)


My LBS in Adelaide has an online store and delivers to my work either same or next day :D
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:50 am

jcjordan wrote:Makes me wonder we're they are getting their stock from.

As of 2 months ago shimano Australia whole sale prime on a DA chain was $58

If I owned a business which depended upon dealing with Shimano Australia, I'd call around and gather support from other shop owners in a similar situation.

Then, once I have the support of as many fellow shop owners as I can find, I'd organise a meeting with Shimano Australia to try and hammer out a better deal. You have a [virtual] bottomless pit of evidence when it comes to significantly lower prices for the same product.

You have to be prepared to threaten to walk out en-masse. If the current situation is allowed to continue, everyone will lose. Shop owners, customers and Shimano. Everyone.

You can change things. Don't just sit around crying about it.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby jcjordan » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:59 am

rkelsen wrote:
jcjordan wrote:Makes me wonder we're they are getting their stock from.

As of 2 months ago shimano Australia whole sale prime on a DA chain was $58

If I owned a business which depended upon dealing with Shimano Australia, I'd call around and gather support from other shop owners in a similar situation.

Then, once I have the support of as many fellow shop owners as I can find, I'd organise a meeting with Shimano Australia to try and hammer out a better deal. You have a [virtual] bottomless pit of evidence when it comes to significantly lower prices for the same product.

You have to be prepared to threaten to walk out en-masse. If the current situation is allowed to continue, everyone will lose. Shop owners, customers and Shimano. Everyone.

You can change things. Don't just sit around crying about it.

The problem is that they hold the strongest card in the deck. If you don't buy from us then we won't deal with any warranty. You can easily be stuck with OEM bikes where y out have to pay for replacement parks. Don't forget that they get a % of OEM bits on bikes as well. If they stop dealing with you you could find yourself not being able to stock and shimano fitted bikes.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:03 am

jcjordan wrote:The problem is that they hold the strongest

I'm not talking about just 6 or 7 fellow shop owners. I'd call every single authorised Shimano dealer in Melbourne [or your capital city].

The threat has to be real.

And there's always SRAM...
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby boss » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:05 am

rkelsen wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The problem is that they hold the strongest

I'm not talking about just 6 or 7 fellow shop owners. I'd call every single authorised Shimano dealer in Melbourne [or your capital city].

The threat has to be real.

And there's always SRAM...


Get ten shop owners in a room and you'll get 14 opinions on how to fix their woes.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:09 am

Ross wrote:Wiggle is just one shop, there are many others but they tend to only stock parts for road and mountain bikes and not much if anything for hybrid type bikes. On the right hand side of the BNA home page there is a listing of a few online shops.

Some of the German stores like bike24, starbike and Rose Versand stock a full range of gear with a much greater focus on touring and commuter bikes and components.

I'd agree with Ross on the magnitude of the savings to be made from overseas on-line purchases. Between 30% and 60% savings, so applying GST would make minimal difference. I buy most of my bike gear from overseas, except for helmets, wheel-builds and sometimes shoes.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:11 am

boss wrote:Get ten shop owners in a room and you'll get 14 opinions on how to fix their woes.

:lol: Maybe... But how many of them would say "no" to pricing which allows them to properly compete with the online market?
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby boss » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:17 am

rkelsen wrote:
boss wrote:Get ten shop owners in a room and you'll get 14 opinions on how to fix their woes.

:lol: Maybe... But how many of them would say "no" to pricing which allows them to properly compete with the online market?


Get ten shop owners and you'll have 14 variations of no.

What you're proposing (shop owners getting together en masse) sounds nice but I don't think it will happen.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:20 am

boss wrote:
rkelsen wrote:
boss wrote:Get ten shop owners in a room and you'll get 14 opinions on how to fix their woes.

:lol: Maybe... But how many of them would say "no" to pricing which allows them to properly compete with the online market?


Get ten shop owners and you'll have 14 variations of no.

What you're proposing (shop owners getting together en masse) sounds nice but I don't think it will happen.


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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:27 am

boss wrote:What you're proposing (shop owners getting together en masse) sounds nice but I don't think it will happen.

I know. :(

It's much easier to just hang around internet forums all day whinging about your problems and blaming the government for them...
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby boss » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:07 am

rkelsen wrote:
boss wrote:What you're proposing (shop owners getting together en masse) sounds nice but I don't think it will happen.

I know. :(

It's much easier to just hang around internet forums all day whinging about your problems and blaming the government for them...


I don't think that many shop owners hang out on forums... industry love to blame forum for their issues too.

But yes, I agree. A lot of people have this odd tendancy to blame others for their own problems :roll:
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby cobba » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:13 am

Click 'Like' on Shimano Australia's facebook page, you'll get better prices and service from them. :mrgreen:

https://www.facebook.com/ShimanoAustralia

Some nice tweets to them probably wouldn't hurt either.

https://twitter.com/ShimanoOZ
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby Ross » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:10 am

boss wrote:
Ross wrote:Well you must have good LBS' that do good prices. It's not only about price, it's about range, variety and convenience. I can sit at the computer and in a matter of minutes compare prices and availablity for a dozen shops, press the button to order and generally the goods will turn up on my doorstep within a week. With a LBS you have to ride/drive 20 or more kilometres to the nearest one, find somewhere to park (maybe have to pay to park), wait for the sales assistant to finish serving other customers to find out the product(s) you want are twice the price of o/s or aren't in stock.

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... oad-cleats Club price $36 RRP $40

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... peed-chain $87 RRP $89.99

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... yre-700x23 $48 RRP $99.99 (price isn't actually too bad on these but most LBS sell them for around $100)


My LBS in Adelaide has an online store and delivers to my work either same or next day :D


Bicycle Express?

Not a lot cheap there.

These prices only available online


Shimano DURA-ACE CN-7801 Chain RRP$89.95 Bargain Bin $54.95 ($36 o/s)
Shimano Ultegra PD-6700-C Pedals RRP $279.95 Bargain Bin $207.61 ($93 o/s)
Shimano RS30 Wheelset RRP $399.95 Bargain Bin $319.96 ($250 o/s)
Shimano DURA-ACE 9000 C24 CL Wheelset $1,299.00 $1,299.00 ($850 o/s)
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby boss » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:20 am

Ross wrote:
boss wrote:
Ross wrote:Well you must have good LBS' that do good prices. It's not only about price, it's about range, variety and convenience. I can sit at the computer and in a matter of minutes compare prices and availablity for a dozen shops, press the button to order and generally the goods will turn up on my doorstep within a week. With a LBS you have to ride/drive 20 or more kilometres to the nearest one, find somewhere to park (maybe have to pay to park), wait for the sales assistant to finish serving other customers to find out the product(s) you want are twice the price of o/s or aren't in stock.

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... oad-cleats Club price $36 RRP $40

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... peed-chain $87 RRP $89.99

http://99bikes.com.au/shop/accessories/ ... yre-700x23 $48 RRP $99.99 (price isn't actually too bad on these but most LBS sell them for around $100)


My LBS in Adelaide has an online store and delivers to my work either same or next day :D


Bicycle Express?

Not a lot cheap there.

These prices only available online


Shimano DURA-ACE CN-7801 Chain RRP$89.95 Bargain Bin $54.95 ($36 o/s)
Shimano Ultegra PD-6700-C Pedals RRP $279.95 Bargain Bin $207.61 ($93 o/s)
Shimano RS30 Wheelset RRP $399.95 Bargain Bin $319.96 ($250 o/s)
Shimano DURA-ACE 9000 C24 CL Wheelset $1,299.00 $1,299.00 ($850 o/s)


Yeah BE's. You rattled off a few consumables and I let you know the prices I paid for similar locally above.

I'm not going to stand up and defend BE (or any other LBS) for their prices, my point was that on some products they aren't as bad as you'd think. Given that they deliver locally same/next day, I'm happy to pay a few bucks extra to have it here sooner.
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Re: The Overseas Purchasing Debate

Postby human909 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:24 am

rkelsen wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The problem is that they hold the strongest

I'm not talking about just 6 or 7 fellow shop owners. I'd call every single authorised Shimano dealer in Melbourne [or your capital city].

The threat has to be real.

And there's always SRAM...


This IS what needs to happen if retailers want the change to happen with minimal pain. Otherwise parallel importing will continue and retailers loyal to Shimano Australia will hurt big time.
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