titanium v carbon.
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titanium v carbon.
Postby ajgool » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:51 pm
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby whitey » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:59 pm
Edit: the search function is your friend http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... t=titanium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby jasonc » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:33 pm
buy me both, and i'll report backwhitey wrote:Can someone pass the popcorn....If money is no issue buy both and tell us the results
Edit: the search function is your friend http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... t=titanium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby London Boy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:45 pm
I can't say money is no issue, but on the basis of n+1... I now have a couple of old steels, an ally, a carbon and a Ti.whitey wrote:Can someone pass the popcorn....If money is no issue buy both and tell us the results
Ti is Van Nicholas Zephyr, built for long cruisey rides. I like it. I'd buy it again. Unlike my old carbon, the frame is pretty much bullet proof (had a cracked frame, not good, but replaced under warranty) and it is comfortable. Not comfortable like a feather mattress, that would be an exaggeration, but has a little more damping than the carbon. It's my Sunday best and I expect to be riding it in another 20 years, if I'm still compos.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby drubie » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:57 pm
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby human909 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:17 pm
Why do you say Ti is not forever? Personally I love lugged steel but I do see a good Ti bike as the next step up for those not fiscally constrained.drubie wrote:At 52 a good quality, lugged steel frame will outlast you and two work hardened Ti frames. The jury is still out on the UV damage a carbon frame can sustain, but steel bikes 100 years old are still rideable. Ti is for showing off, not forever
At the moment I ride lugged aluminium!
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby sogood » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:37 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby RonK » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:43 pm
They are all good.
I think the attribution of ride characteristics to materials is overstated. It's the construction, not the materials that determine a frame's ride qualities.
And I would never buy a bike on the basis that it's going to be my bike "for the rest of my life". How bloody boring!
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby TDC » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:46 pm
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby Nobody » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:48 pm
http://rideons.wordpress.com/2012/04/19 ... nd-repair/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Ride On wrote:Road racer Ben Douglas told Ride On the common understanding among competitive riders is that after two years averaging 20-25,000km per annum racing and training, a carbon fibre bike will lose some of its stiffness due to the epoxy resin softening. It makes the bike less suitable for high-end racing, but still more than adequate as a road bike.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby Nobody » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:56 pm
From what I've read, metals with a fatigue limit like Ti and steel need to have the repeated stresses less than half the yield strength to last indefinitely. To me that means these frames will only last a lifetime if the frame is built strong enough and you are light enough. Many these days have the opposite combination.TDC wrote:Why do you think that it will last a life time? Any frame will fatigue and break in various ways if you ride them long and hard enough.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby human909 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:59 pm
Many materials including steel and titanium don't exhibit fatigue behaviour under normal loading. A steel bike frame should last a lifetime unless you break in a crash or other extreme event.TDC wrote:Why do you think that it will last a life time? Any frame will fatigue and break in various ways if you ride them long and hard enough.
EDIT: My confidence in steel fatigue is probably misplaced judging by the comments below.Nobody wrote:From what I've read, metals with a fatigue limit like Ti and steel need to have the repeated stresses less than half the yield strength to last indefinitely. To me that means these frames will only last a lifetime if the frame is built strong enough and you are light enough. Many these days have the opposite combination.
I doubt this is the case except in extreme cases. Cyclical loading on bicycle frames would be well less than 10% of yield strength. (I've happily loaded up my bicycles with 3 adults before. Bicycles frames are EXTREMELY strong!)
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby twizzle » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:05 pm
Sent from my iThingy...
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby TDC » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:05 pm
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby Nobody » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:15 pm
Well there are a few on here like TLL and Twizzle who will proudly tell you they have cracked steel frames. It's no surprise to many here that I have a bias toward steel, but I still can't deny the reality. The steel frame has to be build strong enough for the person it is going to carry to last. Many lighter frames aren't IMO. Either that, or they are poorly built.human909 wrote:I doubt this is the case except in extreme cases. Cyclical loading on bicycle frames would be well less than 10% of yield strength.
(I've happily loaded up my bicycles with 3 adults before. Bicycles frames are EXTREMELY strong!)
http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... 34&t=51878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Edit: Wow, you have to quick around here.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby sogood » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:35 pm
This pseudo-science justification is akin to one Ti bike company that advertised their bike strength by running a few Ti tubes with a 4WD, all forgetting that the tubes still needed to be welded together and other manufacturing steps. The resulting frame will fail at the weakest point or a point of stress concentration. Fact is, all frames fail.human909 wrote: I doubt this is the case except in extreme cases. Cyclical loading on bicycle frames would be well less than 10% of yield strength. (I've happily loaded up my bicycles with 3 adults before. Bicycles frames are EXTREMELY strong!)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:39 pm
To date the Blacksheep is the only bike I've ever owned that has cracked (vertical head tube crack under top headset cup) It also suffered a cable lug failure which cracked off. Not good for a $5000 custom frame.
I'm now riding a carbon fibre Parlee Z4 which has a life time warranty & to date is the best bike I've ever owned/ridden. So far it's withstood a good 10 thousand km's over 12 months & is looking as good as the day I purchased it. All going well I will replace my Cannondale Super Six with another Parlee in the next 2-3 years.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby drubie » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:08 am
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:14 am
I agree on the lifespans - technically Carbon Fibre has the longest lifespan however is still an unknown factor, depends on construction (faults or flaws), riding, impacts and material degradation over time, as suggest UV is a potential factor.
The bike that won't fail is the bike that isn't ridden, otherwise it could perform well for a long time or there could be something that affects it such as an imperfection which facilitates failure or fatigue.
--
In making a decision, a titanium custom bike will be special bike, you will (should) have tailored geometry to suit. It may not necessarily be a bike for life however is more timeless than carbon fibre - Carbon fibre is still evolving realatively fast and is improving in technology, design and layup.
Darren of Baum Cycles in Geelong is very well regarded for custom titanium bikes and is also local.
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby ajgool » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:05 am
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby human909 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:49 am
Pseudo science? Hardly.sogood wrote:This pseudo-science justification is akin to one Ti bike company that advertised their bike strength by running a few Ti tubes with a 4WD, all forgetting that the tubes still needed to be welded together and other manufacturing steps. The resulting frame will fail at the weakest point or a point of stress concentration. Fact is, all frames fail.
The notion that all frames fail is plainly false. Design a frame with sufficient strength and it wont fail. But I would now seem to agree with Mr "Nobody" that many times manufacturers are pushing the limits and thus the resulting fatigue failures even of many steel bikes. (Until reading this thread I didn't realise BB failures were some common in steel bikes.)
Steel has shown itself to last centuries as long as it is adequately protected from rust. Short of materials with no miniumum fatigue limit, you cant really say one material out lasts the other.AUbicycles wrote:I agree on the lifespans - technically Carbon Fibre has the longest lifespan however is still an unknown factor, depends on construction (faults or flaws), riding, impacts and material degradation over time, as suggest UV is a potential factor.
Also it is quite common for Dutch bikes to last 50 years of riding everyday. My sister is rides her Oma Fiets everyday and that bike is 35 years old!
And then there is this:
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby Marty Moose » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:30 am
MM
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby Comedian » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:32 pm
I'm going to do the experiment. Will report back in a few months.whitey wrote:Can someone pass the popcorn....If money is no issue buy both and tell us the results
Edit: the search function is your friend http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... t=titanium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: titanium v carbon.
Postby william » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:37 pm
Titanium has some brilliant qualities.
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