Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:18 pm

rangersac wrote:And Oprah is making it easy for him. Hasn't pressed him about lying under oath when she's shown video of him doing just that, hasn't pressed him on Ferrari, hasn't pressed him on Hamilton. Hope there's something more than the currency of shame on tomorrow's episode.

There'll be the proper setting for those. It's much more sensible to keep the interview flowing and to allow all to understand more. Over stressing the interviewee and leading to a walk out benefits no one. In any case, the interview is not even half way shown yet. More to come.
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by BNA » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:34 pm

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby rangersac » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:34 pm

sogood wrote: There'll be the proper setting for those. It's much more sensible to keep the interview flowing and to allow all to understand more. Over stressing the interviewee and leading to a walk out benefits no one. In any case, the interview is not even half way shown yet. More to come.


Agreed, we'll see what happens tomorrow. Fair point on keeping the interview going to understand more, however for mine, a good interviewer should be able to recognize when their subject is working towards a clearly scripted narrative and do their best to subtly disrupt that. In this case the interview was always going to be massively prepared because of the legal minefield that has to be navigated. Can you imagine a Kerry O'Brien type letting some of these responses through to the keeper?
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby AndyRevill » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:39 pm

I think they've worked out a plan. Make an admission - first part to redemption - but refuse to implicate anyone else - this is the carrot for a deal to go back under oath tell all and avoid jail
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:50 pm

AndyRevill wrote:I think they've worked out a plan. Make an admission - first part to redemption - but refuse to implicate anyone else - this is the carrot for a deal to go back under oath tell all and avoid jail

It's all so logical in terms of how he and his team is approaching this. Even with dope, he cannot not be a tough fighter to "win" TdF. Intrinsically a fighter he is. Fair enough. What's going to be really interesting for me will be how he is going to present his long term partner Johan Bruyneel?
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby gretaboy » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:58 pm

sogood wrote:What's going to be really interesting for me will be how he is going to present his long term partner Johan Bruyneel?



Thats easy going by whats been said so far....I wont answer that or go into that...or he is a really great person and thats it
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:13 pm

I have published a quick overview of this on BNA here:

Lance Armstrong Officially Confesses: “One Big Lie”

Happy for comments and feedback on this. As suggested it is satisfying to finally having a confession however there are so many incidents which are being avoided. Oprah (& team) have done her homework and are asking about a number of the topics however as he isn't being grilled on these, when the topic is avoided then it is essentially unanswered. While Oprah is talkshow, she is certainly verging on many of these questions.

Can't believe the smirks and jokes by Lance Armstrong at the bullying (ie. "fat" joke) certainly not a time for arrogance, perhaps humility considering the people who have been let down, hurt and disadvantaged.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby azzurribike » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:17 pm

Not a lance fan, but I'm curious about his statement that "he would be first in the door" at a reconciliation. Does that mean he was not given the same chance to come clean as Hincapie etc were?
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:25 pm

He would be the first to the door... except also said that if it wasn't for the USADA case he wouldn't be sitting with Oprah.... and indicated that it is because of the comeback and subsequent case that e is confessing. What does this tell you about the character?

This is what I wrote in my article whether Armstrong is worthy of forgiveness:

Christopher Jones wrote:So is Lance Armstrong worthy of forgiveness if he confesses? No, not at this stage. It doesn’t seem like this is a confession “because it is the right thing to do”. What the confession however does do is create a sense of closure, confirmation that it wasn’t a witch-hunt after all.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:29 pm

azzurribike wrote:Does that mean he was not given the same chance to come clean as Hincapie etc were?

That's not an unreasonable interpretation. Like all good sting ops, the aim is to catch that one big fish. And in this, LA is the big fish. USADA like all other organisation knows full well that dope is everywhere in cycling and catching small fries will only cause ripples and it's the big fishes that'll empty the tank.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby biker jk » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:30 pm

azzurribike wrote:Not a lance fan, but I'm curious about his statement that "he would be first in the door" at a reconciliation. Does that mean he was not given the same chance to come clean as Hincapie etc were?


USADA gave Armstrong the opportunity to co-operate but he declined and launched legal action. In the OW interview Armstrong says if he had his time again he would have confessed to USADA rather than fought (and lied).
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:48 pm

Just created a thread with a Poll:
Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confession?
Considering there have been confessions as well as denials, it would be interesting to know your thoughts.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby BoardRider » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:10 pm

Unremorseful ,calculated confession still playing his cards.But he admitted more than I thought he would.
Does he have shares in the Discovery channel ? Did his confession fill his pockets?
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby Sharkey » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:03 pm

Yes, there was a lot of aovoiding the question, refusing to discuss other people, and obvious lies etc. I don't know how it is possible to have 'no topic off limits' and not even mention Johann's name.

Still, I thought there was more of a confession in the first minute than I actually expected during the whole thing. Here is the transcript of the opening yes/no questions:

Oprah: Did you ever take banned substances to enhance your cycling performance?

Lance Armstrong: Yes

Oprah: Was one of those banned substances EPO?

Lance Armstrong: Yes

Oprah: Did you ever blood-dope, or use blood transfusions to enhance your cycling performance?

Lance Armstrong: Yes

Oprah: Did you ever used other banned substances like cortisones, testosterone, or human growth hormone?

Lance Armstrong: Yes

Oprah: In all seven of your Tour de France victories, did you ever take banned substances or blood- dope?

Lance Armstrong: Yes


I actually doubted that LA would EVER answer any of these questions truthfully.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:10 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
gretaboy wrote:No we are only getting the answers Lance wants us to have...this all scripted to get him back competing


I hear you, though it is the first time that were are hearing an admission - previously is was unnamed sources and unconfirmed.

It is hard to believe that he didn't pressure other riders to dope.

Indeed it is. Besides, he did and it'd been documented by USADA and others with sworn testimony including from people who had no axe to grind or who could have quite safely said nothing.

He was free to dispute those testimonies by going under oath himself. Probably still could. Risk perjury though.

Hard to argue against the sheer number willing to testify against him. Read what is out there and you get the idea that he made lots of enemies, many being of people who did not want to dope but did anyway. Some did not. And some were not riders and so never had to but tell how the culture and mores came from on high. Lance being high.

Yeah, I guess he never put it in writing. :roll:
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:15 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Open question - what are we interested in hearing...

Interested in hearing the enablers, many of who are still in the sport.

Especially want to hear the roles of Verbruggen, McQuaid, the IOC lab in Lusagne, what's-his-name cheif of US Postal, other medics.
While many believed that it was a witch hunt for Lance when there was no point other than spite to continue after him, USADA and WADA have always been interested in getting more of the enablers. As it is turning out that includes UCI.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:20 pm

Shred931 wrote:
gretaboy wrote:he is only doing this because he got caught, too much proof against him


You can pretty much say that about all those caught up in the saga.

Remarkably that is not altogether true. There have been riders and others who were complicit in it who came out of their closet without a need to. People who simply rebelled against what was being done or what they were being required to do and came out when it would have been expedient not to.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:42 pm

Sharkey wrote:
Oprah: In all seven of your Tour de France victories, did you ever take banned substances or blood- dope?
Lance Armstrong: Yes

I actually doubted that LA would EVER answer any of these questions truthfully.

It would have been interesting to go through the 7 years year by year.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby schroeds » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:19 pm

There is miles of op-ed being written right now about Armstrong, and I'm not going to add to it, well not yet :wink: What I'm thinking about is if and how these events affect our cultural standards of ethics and our view of the value of truth. If you can absolve yourself of past crimes by putting on some showbiz sparkle, 'fessing up while lookin' good, and then get on with your life with a smirk, dusting your hands with a 'job done' attitude as Lance seems intent on doing (and we've seen plenty of similarly high flying corporate mea culpas in recent years), does that not somehow reduce the implied seriousness of the fact that you treated the truth with such disregard?

Clayton M Christensen, one of the world's leading thinkers on innovation said: 'It's easier to hold to your principles 100% of the time. The boundary - your own personal moral line - is powerful if you don't cross it; if you have justified doing so once, there's nothing to stop you doing it again. Decide what you stand for and then stand for it all the time.'

It's a bit like the kids story, every time you cuss a fairy dies. Well, every time a high profile person gets away with stuff the rest of us would go to jail for, does the value of truth not die a little?

And if we end up in a society where truth is no longer important, our moral corruption leads us ... where.... :shock:
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:17 pm

Interview, for those who missed


(thanks TomBikes for sharing the link)

And a furious Betsy Andreu

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:46 pm

It's interesting how Betsy Andreu is coming out so hard over this. She must be one upset woman/wife. Why isn't Frankie coming out? Or is Betsy speaking on behalf of both of them?
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:48 pm

sogood wrote:It's interesting how Betsy Andreu is coming out so hard over this. She must be one upset woman/wife. Why isn't Frankie coming out? Or is Betsy speaking on behalf of both of them?

If you didn't believe the lie for so long you would know all about Betsy :P .
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:10 pm

toolonglegs wrote:If you didn't believe the lie for so long you would know all about Betsy :P .

Yes, I do know about her but it's interesting how the media picked her out of all the other possible candidates. I think the media picked well as she is clearly one who'll bring up the rating.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:24 pm

She's always made good sound bites... But then she is a women who has stuck to her guns from day one... And LA has crucified her since day one... No surprise she is so deeply embittered, after all they were some of his "dearest" friends at the time he asked them to join him in that doctors consultation.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:31 pm

toolonglegs wrote:She's always made good sound bites... But then she is a women who has stuck to her guns from day one... And LA has crucified her since day one... No surprise she is so deeply embittered, after all they were some of his "dearest" friends at the time he asked them to join him in that doctors consultation.

It's like a divorce proceeding where each wants to tear a piece of the other. Not nice.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:48 pm

sogood wrote:It's interesting how Betsy Andreu is coming out so hard over this. She must be one upset woman/wife. Why isn't Frankie coming out? Or is Betsy speaking on behalf of both of them?

What is your point???
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