Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:54 pm

biker jk wrote:No need for such drastic measures. Some gaol time for perjury would be adequate punishment.

If Dubya Bush goes to goal, I am sure LA would too.
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by BNA » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:58 pm

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:58 pm

vander wrote:Yea a few years in jail, plus having to give every cent he earned back (as he has never had a real job and has made all his money of his fraud of a cycling career). As well as never being able to compete again.

All just concept. Anyone with any significant wealth and commercial risks these days would have already structured their assets in such a way that'll protect these eventualities. You can expend further millions to chase his money and all he has to do is to declare bankruptcy. Good luck! LA is not the first nor the last. White collar crimes are full of these stories.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:59 pm

I am slightly divided on the whole thing. :?

Yes he is a cheat, now that the proof has been presented. This was always my problem = not seen the hard proof so judgement reserved. Now it is there. :x

Should he be able to compete in sport again...........hmmmmmmmmm only if there is non financial gain for him from the sport. :wink:

He should also have to have tests done every week for all forms of drugs. :idea:

Am i disappointed, extremely so, as I was cheated out of State placings and selection for Australian Titles due to my training geared to this time and not State titles. (plus corruption and I'll pay for my sons expenses because we are moving over there. this rider had never beaten me in the trials or the titles. :evil:

If he is not prepared to name names and provide evidence of the others, from the other teams and the corrupt UCI officials no! :idea:

He should also be required to speak about his deceit to school kids and how the deceptive nature of drug abuse is no conciliation for doing things off your own back. :wink:

What turned him to admit, well I think his son did. How could you live with yourself having your son or daughter defending you, when you knew that it was all a lie. :(

I am a hard arsed person when it comes to drugs. Whether it be sport or personal use but I do believe in giving someone a second chance but with huge restrictions. :|

Lastly, he should have to repay any gain from sueing for defamation on the subject of drug abuse. :x

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby vander » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:08 pm

foo on patrol wrote:What turned him to admit, well I think his son did. How could you live with yourself having your son or daughter defending you, when you knew that it was all a lie. :(

Foo

Was not his son at all you could see by his body language and facial expressions that the story was a lie scripted probably to try and get people feeling sorry from him. He was 100% self serving coming clean. It was all about trying to rectify his image to his hardcore followers and maybe get back a few of the borderline people. While also planting the seed of getting back to competing. I dont believe he is a very good parent, how can you be when you are so obsessed with yourself. How can you be able to lie to your kids for 13 years.......

@Sogood I know he will just file chapter 11 and it will all be in his GFs name or kids names by now and that is the worst part of all of it. He will get away with it and be allowed to live the good life for the rest of his life.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby schroeds » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:45 pm

vander wrote: Yea a few years in jail, plus having to give every cent he earned back (as he has never had a real job and has made all his money of his fraud of a cycling career). As well as never being able to compete again.


You'll be lucky if you get one out of three I reckon
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:38 pm

BNA Writeup: Lance Armstrong: I Deserve to Compete!

This was published just after the interview and is a much bigger issue than can be summed up in such a quick report, but here are a few items:

- The second part was more "emotional" and less about details. Only a few tiny bits really
- Strong feeling that Lance would not have admitted unless otherwise pressured - or if he could, would have kept it up.
- Seemed to become emotional talking about loss of sponsorship - followed by being "kick out" of LiveStrong - though factual or straight forward about confession and betrayal of fans and the sport
- Hard to believe words that there is remorse, it seems there is more sadness that "the dream is finally over"
- Feels hard done by, lack of reality about the impact he has had (damage caused) and that he is owed... "deserve to compete".

My thoughts following part one havn't changed that it is a partial confession and too many things are shielded from discussion, topics which I feel wont be discussed because of liability. Considering the confession interview was promoted as totally honest and no-topic-offlimites, this was not the case.

--

There remain a lot of open questions and I will step back and give this topic a break though still keep an interest in developments such as implications and legal action against Armstrong. If he pays his dues then he deserves a second chance. Perhaps the interview really is the first step in his "process" and I hope that he can make it up.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby wombatK » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:40 pm

biker jk wrote:
schroeds wrote:ah cut to the chase let's burn the bugger at the stake...worked for Joan of arc :twisted:


No need for such drastic measures. Some gaol time for perjury would be adequate punishment.

While there's nothin like a good witch burnin', I'd much rather see him give back his ill-gotten gains
The $150 m that cycling gave him.

If he doesn't want to give it to the sponsors and other riders he dudded, maybe he could give it
to a real charity. Sorry, Livestrong doesn't rate.

Other very deserving riders like Anna Meares and the UK's Nicole Cook who found sponsorship impossible to raise in the wake of the Armstrong era. That's the real loss of sponsorship
that should worry us - not which sponsors have dumped Armstrong.

Redemption is possible, but I'm afraid not likely. Yeah, he wants to race again (Hawaii Iron Man etc.,.) - but not
that badly.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby rdwaltonut » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:45 am

Question. I thought I had heard about there being evidence, but I hadn't thought that it had come out publicly, so that everyone could see. I had heard about them having evidence, and then they stripped him of his medals. Is there a report about this release of evidence?
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby vander » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:46 am

rdwaltonut wrote:Question. I thought I had heard about there being evidence, but I hadn't thought that it had come out publicly, so that everyone could see. I had heard about them having evidence, and then they stripped him of his medals. Is there a report about this release of evidence?


The evidence is in USADA reasoned decision. I am sure if you google it you will find it. It is 1000pages so you need a bit of spare time.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby Red Rider » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:15 pm

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby Krank » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:30 pm

... instead of blaming LS for cheating, perhaps we should blame the system for allowing this to occur for each of the 7 years he won tdf??

my 20 cents worth...


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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby schroeds » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:39 pm

Surely 'as well as' rather than 'instead of'
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby biker jk » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:44 pm

schroeds wrote:Surely 'as well as' rather than 'instead of'


+1. I can't believe how many Armstrong apologists still exist. It's mind boggling. After all, why didn't Armstrong spill the beans on the UCI's role in helping him beat the doping tests?
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby Krank » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:58 pm

yes, i agree "as well" in lieu of "instead of".

sorry - my mistake.

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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby rdwaltonut » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:04 pm

Thanks for that insight/document. I can now say that he is a cheater and does deserve to be banned. Not just for the fact that he did dope, but lied about it, and aggressively went after anyone who did call him a cheater. It pains me to admit that I admired him during his time in the light. But am glad that he has been brought to justice. One thing that I hope is that Oprah didn't pay him for his confession. He doesn't deserve to make another dollar in any way attributed to this travesty.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby schroeds » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:17 pm

Another one sees the light :| And now you see the evidence, here are some of the denials:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ja ... intcmp=239

Interesting take here, a reading of his body language during the interview

http://media.smh.com.au/selections/arms ... 65366.html
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:34 pm

Krank wrote:... instead of blaming LS for cheating, perhaps we should blame the system for allowing this to occur for each of the 7 years he won tdf??

my 20 cents worth...


krank

That is the big push behind the actions of WADA, USADA, Walsh, heaps of others. Despite Lances bleatings over years about a witch hunt, those have been dogged in chasing whoever with a clear purpose of purging the sport of the enablers that are still in there, "enabling". And high on the target list is the Union Cycliste Internationale (world peak biody, aka UCI).

So yes, Lance is copping a lot of flack. But the battle being fought is looking a lot wider.

And there is a sense of rightness in taking apart the carefully constructed falacy of a legend owned by a thoroughly nasty, selfish, vindictive man. Plus it sends a strong message to others contemplating following in his footsteps that the downside can be extremely unpleasant. The more extreme the better.

schroeds wrote:Surely 'as well as' rather than 'instead of'
says it all.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:36 pm

rdwaltonut wrote:Question. I thought I had heard about there being evidence, but I hadn't thought that it had come out publicly, so that everyone could see. I had heard about them having evidence, and then they stripped him of his medals. Is there a report about this release of evidence?


Wow. How long have you been incommunicado in the antarctic? :wink:
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby sogood » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:41 pm

biker jk wrote:+1. I can't believe how many Armstrong apologists still exist. It's mind boggling. After all, why didn't Armstrong spill the beans on the UCI's role in helping him beat the doping tests?

It won't be the only secret that gets left behind in human history. Secret deals and wild speculations are everywhere in this society. Do we need to know every one of them? I'd say it's impossible to know the truth to everything. Focus on the big picture and fix the problems and move on. If information is so significantly lacking, then just bulldoze it and move forward.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby biker jk » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:58 pm

Great article by Paul Kimmage highlighting the contrast in how two TDF cheats have been treated, Landis and Armstrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/19/lance-armstrong-cycling

The saddest story I've ever heard about sport was told to me in November 2010 by a man who cheated to win the Tour de France. We were sitting not in the plush surrounds of a five-star hotel in Texas, but in a sparsely furnished cabin in the San Jacinto mountains. Floyd Landis's old racing bike was standing just inside the doorway; his underwear was drying on a clotheshorse; the cupboards were bare, the carpet was worn; it had been a while since President Bush had called.

Darkness was falling on the mountain. Five hours had passed since he had begun telling his story and had covered most of the bases: his boyhood as a Mennonite, his doping apprenticeship with Lance Armstrong, his Tour de France win in July 2006 and the 12 months he spent lying after he tested positive. We have now reached the moment he knew the lying would have to stop.

It's 20 September 2007. He has just set off on a training ride from his home in San Diego when he receives a call from his lawyer, Maurice Suh. After a costly and protracted legal battle with the United States Anti-Doping Agency, the ruling on his positive test is about to be announced. "We should know in the next hour," the lawyer says.

Landis returns home immediately and waits in the garage. His wife, Amber, is sitting inside but he needs to be alone. The case has placed a desperate strain on their marriage. Every penny of their savings is riding on this call. Win, and the good times roll again. Lose, and they face ruin. Twenty minutes pass before the lawyer delivers the verdict. "We lost," he says.

Amber cries when she hears the news but Floyd burns with anger. He races upstairs to the living room and takes the most coveted prize in cycling – a beautiful porcelain bowl presented to the winner of Tour de France – from a cabinet. Amber knows what he's thinking and follows him up the stairs but he has already raised it over his head when she comes through the door.

"No Floyd!" she pleads. "It's all we have."

He smashes it to the floor.

"I had walked by that thing a hundred times [that year], and every single time I wanted to smash it," Landis explained. "It had made me into something that I wasn't. It represented a turning point in my life where I had to lie."

Lance Armstrong reached that turning point in 1999 but he's not living in a shed in the San Jacinto mountains, and he hasn't broken any porcelain yet. For the first 39 seconds of his interview with Oprah Winfrey, he was utterly convincing …
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby schroeds » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:04 pm

Thanks. That really says it all. Just in case anybody has a shred of pity left for this man.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby Benz250 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:14 pm

Every one who cheats will get caught at some stage it's just a matter of time, shame it took so long!
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:02 pm

Benz250 wrote:Every one who cheats will get caught at some stage it's just a matter of time, shame it took so long!


No they wont, a lot of people got through and if you read up on cycling history of doping, some of the legends are involved however it is so far in the past.

But yes, it is a shame when it takes so long, this makes it hard for everyone, so one of the things that need to be improved, faster decisions in doping cases.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby RonK » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:07 pm

biker jk wrote:I can't believe how many Armstrong apologists still exist. It's mind boggling.

They've switched from deny to justify, but it seems they really just can't stomach the reality that their long-time hero is by his own admission a cheat, liar, and bully.
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Re: Holy showtime Batman - Lance to admit doping?

Postby Marx » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:20 pm

LA should burn for what he did.
We all enter events & participate, so we all have the opportunity to cheat or work outside the rules for our own benefit.

Even if it just regarded as a witch hunt & hundreds of others 'get away with it', this needs to cut deep to put the fear of doubt into others in the future.

After all if people dont follow the rules, whats the point in doing anything really? You can just take what you want or say what you like.
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