Crashed

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Re: Crashed

Postby queequeg » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:57 pm

RonK wrote:
queequeg wrote:in terms of percentages, I get around 60% of pedal who either can't hear the bell due to earphones or traffic noise, or they simply choose to ignore it. on more than one occasion I have been dinging the bell on approach until I am adjacent to the pedestrian and they still haven't heard me, then as I crawl past at 6km/h they jump 6 ft in the air from fright.

You need to take into account that everyone's hearing degrades with age and the higher frequencies (such as a bicycle bell makes) are simply inaudible to many.


Perhaps the earphones have damaged all the teenagers hearing, as that is the age group I have most trouble with. The older folks I rarely have issues with, just the occasional daydreamer.
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by BNA » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:30 pm

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Re: Crashed

Postby RonK » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:30 pm

queequeg wrote:
RonK wrote:
queequeg wrote:in terms of percentages, I get around 60% of pedal who either can't hear the bell due to earphones or traffic noise, or they simply choose to ignore it. on more than one occasion I have been dinging the bell on approach until I am adjacent to the pedestrian and they still haven't heard me, then as I crawl past at 6km/h they jump 6 ft in the air from fright.

You need to take into account that everyone's hearing degrades with age and the higher frequencies (such as a bicycle bell makes) are simply inaudible to many.


Perhaps the earphones have damaged all the teenagers hearing, as that is the age group I have most trouble with. The older folks I rarely have issues with, just the occasional daydreamer.

No, teenagers playing very loud music, are in the process of damaging their hearing - the problem is expected to become much worse as they get older.
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Re: Crashed

Postby GH » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:04 pm

Ozkaban wrote:
I find bike bells work well in general (one of my bikes has one, one doesn't) - people know what they mean...


This exactly, people coming up behind me yelling something initially causes a case of what was that and a need to look around to see what it is.
Use your bell, then EVERYONE knows its you on a bike and you want to go past. No need to look around just move to the left if possible, whether
on a bike or a pedestrian.
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Re: Crashed

Postby GH » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:22 pm

To the OP, G-BOAF.

Assuming your name references the Concorde with that registration its amazing the coincidence of involvement I have had with that aircraft.

I manned the emergency comms van at Sydney airport the day it came in with the top of the tail missing.
I was in London for the Queens jubilee fly past in 2002 when "AF" was the chosen Concorde
I flew in "AF" from London to New York in May 2003, and the return leg in "AD"
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Re: Crashed

Postby RonK » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:54 pm

g-boaf wrote:Pedestrians should also have an onus on them to be aware of their surroundings and not be listening to music on headphones while walking. But even simpler would be just to keep in the left side of marked shared paths where there is a left and right lane marked.

I have been involved in a very similar incident - a crash while trying to avoid a pedestrian on a shared path.

The crash resulted in severe, deep bruising to my hip, which took several months to heal.

But I realised in hindsight that it could have been much worse - I could easily have suffered a broken hip.

The lesson I chose to take from the incident was that if I was unable to stop to avoid a foreseeable hazard, then I was travelling too fast.

And yes, avoiding a hazard may sometimes mean slowing to walking pace, or even coming to a complete halt.

After this incident and witnessing a couple of cyclist/pedestrian collisions where the cyclist was definitely at fault, I rarely use bike paths or shared paths anymore - I find motorists behavior far more predictable than pedestrians or other cyclists.
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Re: Crashed

Postby g-boaf » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:05 pm

GH wrote:To the OP, G-BOAF.

Assuming your name references the Concorde with that registration its amazing the coincidence of involvement I have had with that aircraft.

I manned the emergency comms van at Sydney airport the day it came in with the top of the tail missing.
I was in London for the Queens jubilee fly past in 2002 when "AF" was the chosen Concorde
I flew in "AF" from London to New York in May 2003, and the return leg in "AD"


It does indeed reference that plane, #216. Quite remarkable co-incidences. Alpha-Echo also had a similar failure, though it was the lower portion, rather than the upper one as on Alpha-Fox. Quite lucky that the rudder on that plane was rarely used.

Things aren't going well so well today. The wounds are recovering but the right leg is now feeling painful and weak when I get up. That's not good.
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Re: Crashed

Postby DentedHead » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:52 am

GH wrote:
Ozkaban wrote:
I find bike bells work well in general (one of my bikes has one, one doesn't) - people know what they mean...


This exactly, people coming up behind me yelling something initially causes a case of what was that and a need to look around to see what it is.
Use your bell, then EVERYONE knows its you on a bike and you want to go past. No need to look around just move to the left if possible, whether
on a bike or a pedestrian.




I find it hard to believe you actually ride anywhere near peds. Your assumption that "EVERYONE" knows (or even hears) a bike bell boggles my mind.


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Re: Crashed

Postby GH » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:34 pm

DentedHead wrote:
GH wrote:
Ozkaban wrote:
I find bike bells work well in general (one of my bikes has one, one doesn't) - people know what they mean...


This exactly, people coming up behind me yelling something initially causes a case of what was that and a need to look around to see what it is.
Use your bell, then EVERYONE knows its you on a bike and you want to go past. No need to look around just move to the left if possible, whether
on a bike or a pedestrian.




I find it hard to believe you actually ride anywhere near peds. Your assumption that "EVERYONE" knows (or even hears) a bike bell boggles my mind.


Dent.


Unless it is your first time walking or cycling in an area that cyclists traverse then you have heard a bicycle bell and know what it means. The problem these days I think is that it is considered uncool to have a bell on your superlight bicycle while riding around our cities and suburbs because TDF bikes don't have a bell. And that it is more cool to just yell something as you whizz by. Pedestrians are their own worst enemies these days, they seemingly all have earphones in their ears and are off in their own world whilst travelling in the real world. A bell or horn is IMHO more likely to evoke a response of "bike coming from behind" than a yelled "passing right" which could well not be interpreted as anything like that given people talking and yelling in general in public. And what if you hear it as "passing left" instead of right. Use your bell, its a legal requirement and has been for years, people do understand it, if they hear it. Sorry this is getting way off track.
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Re: Crashed

Postby Xplora » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:57 pm

Even high density cycling areas are full of dimwits who aren't paying attention and can't hear the bell (iPods etc).

AZ MUST be in your kit bag if you are mixing it up on shared paths or high density traffic areas. The voice is great for 90% of interaction, the bell is fine for another 7% but 1 in 30 emergencies requires either emergency evasive action or the AZ.

I didn't have mine pumped up for ages, I very rarely use mine, but I'm glad I have it. Sometimes the truck doesn't see you and you can't just run out of the way. It's rare, but it will save your bacon more often than a helmet will :idea:
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Re: Crashed

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:04 pm

Bad news - the leg seems to be infected. And it's incredibly painful to get up after sitting down or laying down too, the front of the lower leg where the grazing is gets very painful. Eventually the pain subsides - but it's awful. :cry:

Arm is okay - shoulder is not so bad, it's less messy than it was.
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Re: Crashed

Postby sogood » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:59 pm

g-boaf wrote:Bad news - the leg seems to be infected. And it's incredibly painful to get up after sitting down or laying down too, the front of the lower leg where the grazing is gets very painful. Eventually the pain subsides - but it's awful. :cry:

Hard to know over the internet whether you need additional treatment. If you have pain (the primary body signal to you that something is not right), get it checked out. As I suggested, for a large haematoma, you'll want to be very cautious. See your doctor or visit the hospital ASAP. You may need IV antibiotics for a few days or even drainage. You don't want to wait for it to flair up.
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Re: Crashed

Postby Xplora » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:17 pm

^^ Once you've in IV antibotics stage, you're in serious trouble and you won't be able to pussyfoot around. You start feeling woozy, you call 000 straight away. :!:
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Re: Crashed

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:23 pm

The swelling has started to go down. I'm a daily visitor to the doctors - believe me, if anything worse happens I will be the first to call for help.
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Re: Crashed

Postby sogood » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:18 pm

Where's that "Like" button?!?
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Re: Crashed

Postby DentedHead » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:14 am

GH wrote:
Unless it is your first time walking or cycling in an area that cyclists traverse then you have heard a bicycle bell and know what it means. The problem these days I think is that it is considered uncool to have a bell on your superlight bicycle while riding around our cities and suburbs because TDF bikes don't have a bell. And that it is more cool to just yell something as you whizz by. Pedestrians are their own worst enemies these days, they seemingly all have earphones in their ears and are off in their own world whilst travelling in the real world. A bell or horn is IMHO more likely to evoke a response of "bike coming from behind" than a yelled "passing right" which could well not be interpreted as anything like that given people talking and yelling in general in public. And what if you hear it as "passing left" instead of right. Use your bell, its a legal requirement and has been for years, people do understand it, if they hear it. Sorry this is getting way off track.


I invite you to come for a ride around the Lake Wendouree shared path in Ballarat and see how useful your bell is. All my rides have bells fitted, but after using them on approach to a ped, I normally need to call out or "go bush" off the path around them. And, yeah, sorry for going off-topic... I'll leave it here.

Hope the healing goes well, g-boaf.


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Re: Crashed

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:11 pm

GH: people don't hear bells. They walk around with music going. You can be right behind them at walking pace shouting at full volume and they still don't hear. The bell is just about useless, it isn't loud enough. We need something like a TGV horn.

When will we have a law making it illegal for pedestrians to listen to have headphones or iPods going that obstruct their ability to hear cars or other vehicles.

Dented head: off topic if you want! I'm not going to argue about it . I'm just hoping I start to get better - it's annoying having to keep my feet up all the time - and being so painful to get up, which is apparently all from the infection in the leg.
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Re: Crashed

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:27 pm

g-boaf wrote:GH: people don't hear bells. They walk around with music going. You can be right behind them at walking pace shouting at full volume and they still don't hear. The bell is just about useless, it isn't loud enough. We need something like a TGV horn.

When will we have a law making it illegal for pedestrians to listen to have headphones or iPods going that obstruct their ability to hear cars or other vehicles.

Dented head: off topic if you want! I'm not going to argue about it . I'm just hoping I start to get better - it's annoying having to keep my feet up all the time - and being so painful to get up, which is apparently all from the infection in the leg.

Mulger bill wrote:Recent personal experience says this wakes up 90% of all pedestrians suffering situational awareness deficiency...
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I'm not making this up...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Crashed

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:32 pm

Seems somewhat ironic that there are a number of posts here commenting that pedestrians are distracted by listening to music through ear phones, but in another thread we have any number of cyclists who are adamant that listening to music while they ride is not distracting.

We can't have both ways surely. Either it is distracting for all, or it's not, for all.
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Re: Crashed

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:55 pm

Ronk: you are in the wrong message with that comment - I can tell you very clearly that I never listen to music or anything like that when riding. I'm 100% listening to what is happening around me. Others might, but I'm firmly against it. I carry around a phone in case I need to make a call, but even in that case I stop first and get out of the way. I have to take it out of a ziplock bag before I can use it.

Sorry to others - but listening to music through headphones when riding is just a really bad idea and a recipe for disaster.
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Re: Crashed

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:14 pm

g-boaf wrote:Ronk: you are in the wrong message with that comment - I can tell you very clearly that I never listen to music or anything like that when riding. I'm 100% listening to what is happening around me.

Well, I was not taking aim at you or anyone in particular, just pointing out the contradiction.
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Re: Crashed

Postby Alien27 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:14 pm

The bell works most of the time for me. The ped hears it and you can tell as they usually move a fraction left. If they don't as they are hard of hearing or listening to music no problems. Slow right down and pass them slow enough to basically stop in an instant. If you new an air horn your going two fast. Nothing wrong with using your voice either. Mine just seems to come out impolite when I'm riding so I use a bell. It works great in that prob 70% of the time it prompts the ped to acknowledge is some small way that they know your there.

Nothing wrong with people listening to music while they walk, jog or run we just have to realise its a shared path and as the overtaking party we need to compensate.
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Re: Crashed

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:08 am

jacks1071 wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I crashed - hit by pedestrian - she was on right, went further right then suddenly left, hit me. I had no time to avoid.

Badly grazed - thigh swollen massively, bike ok, I'm out for a while. In lots of pain.

Seriously thinking of giving this all up. I've had enough. :cry:


Hope you pull up alright lad.

You should consider getting a bell, passing pedestrian's who don't know you are there isn't wise - bit late to tell you this... Often you'll scare the crap out of them and they might jump in front of you.

Ring the bell or yell out, whatever, make your presence known well before you arrive and you'll never have that problem again. Probably also wise to wash off some speed when passing.


Got both and yelled out. Just when it seemed clear she was going to stay on the right (even moved further right to give me more room) she went left as I was just about alongside. She admitted that she knew being on the right was wrong - and she though that she might go left instead. The way it was done almost makes me wonder if it was deliberate, especially after hearing that two days later, two more people suffered the same type of accident in the same place.

I just want the infected leg and swelling to go down. The doctors are worried about it - especially that the infection might have become resistant to the antibiotics which is 4x 500mg each day. Going back this afternoon.

My mind says not to ride a bike again, but my heart wants to - badly. :(


And again, cyclists and pedestrians should not be listening to music while they are riding or walking. They need to know what is happening around them. Eg, crossing roads. I've seen many near misses due to that.
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Re: Crashed

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:42 pm

Latest update is that the arm is healing up well but the lower leg and the shoulder are still a problem. The bruising around the haematoma is going and the swelling associated with it is going down slowly.

But the swelling of my right leg and foot is bad. I'm now on stronger antibiotics with a huge dose right away. :shock: We shall see tomorrow the effect of those.
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Re: Crashed

Postby moosterbounce » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:05 pm

Sounds like the new year has not played fair with you at all. Stay positive through the healing dramas. Hope the legs turns the corner soon...not literally of course!! :shock:
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Re: Crashed

Postby GH » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:25 pm

Hope your leg and foot have responded well to the increased dose of different antibiotics. Pesky things these cycling injuries. I had a very small slow stack a couple of weeks ago, my own silly fault, and am still dealing with the gravel rash. But being of a certain age these things just take longer to heal.

All the best with your recovery, get well soon and back out there.
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