Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

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Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby lordbiggington » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:44 am

Not sure if this or The Shed is the right area.......and bit of a novice question, so go easy on me :-)

When I bought my bike I ended up replacing the 11-23 SRAM Red cassette with an 11-28 SRAM Force. Main reason as I was about to do a week cycling through some hills in Tassie (approx 13,000m of climbing in 7 days). So glad I made that choice. Now I am back home and back to more 'regular' riding (mixture of commute, flat medium and long rides up to 150k, with a few shorter climbing rides thrown in occasionally). So the question is, what real benefit will there be on my longer flat rides by switching back to the 11-23 cassette (I understand the dis-benefit on those hilly days), I suspect that I wont really notice a significant change, either from more options through the middle of the cassette nor the diff between Red and Force components (the rest of the groupset is also Red). I have a standard size chainring.

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by BNA » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:47 am

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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby zero » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:47 am

I have an 11-21 on my road bike. I make a lot of double shifts in every day riding.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby lordbiggington » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:52 am

zero wrote:I have an 11-21 on my road bike. I make a lot of double shifts in every day riding.


OK, thanks for the response - but again excuse the ignorant question - is that because consecutive gears are too close together for the more frequent changes of speed in 'regular' riding?
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am

A sensible compromise would be an 11-25 cassette.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby m@ » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:33 am

I switched from 11-25 to 11-27 (I think... maybe 11-28), and have found myself doing way more double-shifts on the flat and cross-chaining a fair bit. Feels as though there's a dead spot in the middle of the cassette where either chainring is either too high or too low, so I end up cross-chaining often.

That said, it's more incentive to head for the hills ;)
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:07 am

I tend to swap between cassettes depending on what ride I'm doing on the day. 11-23 for flat rides, 11-25 for Coot-Tha, Nebo etc. Might get an 11-27 too. It only takes 5 minutes, time well spent to have the right gears for the job...
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:00 am

I've gone from an 11-23 when I used to live in level-land to an 11-28 now that there are hills. TBH I don't notice the gaps, on a sram the biggest is 28 to 25. The larger rear sprocket allows you to stay in the big ring more often too, which is more efficient apparently, but it's good not to be doing front shifts as often. I'm sticking with 11-28 for all my clusters in future :)
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby zero » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:35 pm

lordbiggington wrote:
zero wrote:I have an 11-21 on my road bike. I make a lot of double shifts in every day riding.


OK, thanks for the response - but again excuse the ignorant question - is that because consecutive gears are too close together for the more frequent changes of speed in 'regular' riding?


Yeah - I just don't make any use of the close ratios in traffic riding. The gears are effectively 0-20 in one gear, then a 2km/hr spread between gears thereafter - If I am strong enough to generally ride with a 21 bottom, then I am strong enough to push the next gear 20-30, and the gear after that 30-35, and then and only then I might make some use of close ratios, and doing each intermediate change singly would just be a lot of soft pedaling whilst it changed.

It is however an awesome excuse for dropping a group on a climb. Sorry guys I've got a 21 on, I have to ride at 20. See you at the top!
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby jimsheedy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:45 pm

I usually ride an 11- 25 with a 39 - 53 0n the front. I ride a lot of hills around sydney and find that works well for me. I have a 28 which I rarely use and just put on a 12 - 30 as I am gonna do the 250 alpine this weekend and thought this might be good insurance for the back of falls. Been riding the 30 for the last few days and I have to say it's not a great cluster for regular riding. Hard to find just the right gear. Just doesn't feel that great.

I'll be putting the 25 back on ASAP.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby BrisVegas » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:49 pm

I'm putting on a 11-28 today. I've chopped out my freehub and existing 12-25 cluster and had to replace both, so figured I'd give the easier gearing a try. I've never had higher than a 25! My old roadie was a 12-21 which looked like a corn cob. :lol:
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby lordbiggington » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:34 pm

Excellent tips - really useful info, thanks.
I reckon I'll throw the 11-23 back on, I am using a removable link so I can just swap the chain and cassette out easily enough I guess.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby jimsheedy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:39 pm

Just a tip. New cassette + New Chain.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby lordbiggington » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:45 pm

jimsheedy wrote:Just a tip. New cassette + New Chain.


Yep - I got a new chain put on when I went for the 11-28 (I had done 500km on the 11-23 when I go it swapped over and kept that chain as well). So I am learning some things about treating my new toy nicely.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby jimsheedy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:50 pm

Yep, just keep each chain with each cassette.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby hannos » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:35 am

I'm soft. I use a 50/34 + 12-28 at the moment. I use an 11-25 when I'm riding regularly (twice a week or more) which I'm not currently doing.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby Marty Moose » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:35 am

I know its late in the thread but have you considered a 12/23 or 12/25 I find these clusters offer a more useable range.How often do you really use your 11 unless your on a compact.

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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby jimsheedy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:25 am

On a fast flat run pretty nice in the big plate and locked into the 11
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby danny the boy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:34 am

m@ wrote:I switched from 11-25 to 11-27 (I think... maybe 11-28), and have found myself doing way more double-shifts on the flat and cross-chaining a fair bit. Feels as though there's a dead spot in the middle of the cassette where either chainring is either too high or too low, so I end up cross-chaining often.

That said, it's more incentive to head for the hills ;)



Thats very odd considering the only difference between an 11-25 and 11-28 is the 2 biggest gears.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby boss » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:00 pm

I run compact + 11-28 and notice that there are a few dead spots that require shifting the FD.

I probably wouldn't shift to 11-25 as I like the 28 for the really tough hills. Although if you do less hills riding than me (self confessed mountain goat) 25 would be a sensible choice.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby lordbiggington » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:35 pm

Well seeing as I already have an 11-23 and an 11-28 I'll be sticking with the 11-23,and switch in the 11-28 when I know I'm going to be hitting the big hills.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby mitzikatzi » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:48 pm

danny the boy wrote:
m@ wrote:I switched from 11-25 to 11-27 (I think... maybe 11-28), and have found myself doing way more double-shifts on the flat and cross-chaining a fair bit. Feels as though there's a dead spot in the middle of the cassette where either chainring is either too high or too low, so I end up cross-chaining often.

That said, it's more incentive to head for the hills ;)



Thats very odd considering the only difference between an 11-25 and 11-28 is the 2 biggest gears.


This chart shows the cog breakdown on our various sizes of cassette

You need to look at each of the cogs between the two extremes.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby boss » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:32 pm

mitzikatzi wrote:
danny the boy wrote:
m@ wrote:I switched from 11-25 to 11-27 (I think... maybe 11-28), and have found myself doing way more double-shifts on the flat and cross-chaining a fair bit. Feels as though there's a dead spot in the middle of the cassette where either chainring is either too high or too low, so I end up cross-chaining often.

That said, it's more incentive to head for the hills ;)



Thats very odd considering the only difference between an 11-25 and 11-28 is the 2 biggest gears.


This chart shows the cog breakdown on our various sizes of cassette

You need to look at each of the cogs between the two extremes.


These pages display the cogs that Shimano use for their 105, Ultegra and DA 10spd gear:

105 5700: http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/ ... _road.html
Ultegra 6700: http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/ ... ype-..html
DA 7900: http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/conte ... ype-..html

The cog teeth listed are substantially different to the erroneous data on the link you've posted.

As stated previously by Danny, on 11-25 and 11-28 all cogs are the same with exception of the biggest two.

It goes 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21. Then 11-25 finishes with 23t and 25t, 11-28 finishes with 24t and 28t.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby mitzikatzi » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:35 pm

Well there you go :D my mistake

I still think you need to look at the individual cogs as well as the overall range when choosing a cassette.

And SRAM is a little different. The differences are a little greater when you go from 11/25 to 12/28

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25,
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28
12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby kosh » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:49 pm

http://ritzelrechner.de/ for a truly awesome way to visualize how cassette selection affects speed, chain angle, jump size etc.

personally I use an 11-28 for training and recreational events, but generally race on 11-23 (unless very hilly). oh and on a kurt kinetic I use a 12-21 straight block

if you have an 11-28 there are indeed some big jumps. one thing you can do is train to have a wider effective cadence range. on coach's advice I do fixed gear work at very high revs (like, 150rpm+) and this has developed a tolerance; on the road, my legs now feel as comfortable at 115rpm as they do at 85rpm.
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Re: Cassette choice - 11-23 v 11-28

Postby dungee » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:07 pm

I think what you have on the front will help determine what you use on the back. I'm an old bugger and run a compact on front with an 11-25 on the back. I can get up any hills I come across so far and the 11 helps me on the downward side. My race wheels have a 12-25, this is good for crits as I am still unable to spin it out in top gear.

One day I may get strong (man) enough for a full crank but I would probably run a 12-28 on if I did.
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