[POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confession
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby MarkG » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:30 pm
Fair to say he probably watched the interview ahahah
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby brentono » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:01 pm
Lance begins to cry. Oprah leans in and says "I think what you need, is a....performance enhancing hug"
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby Apple » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:44 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thyFmxusB9E&NR=1[/youtube]
And this one blew me away.
Speak your mind,Those that mind dont matter, Those that matter dont mind!!
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby ozstriker » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:56 pm
Whilst he does sound like a bit of a bully and douchebag, and I find it totally ridiculous that that live strong hasn't given a cent to cancer research, only to bring 'awareness', give me a break, I think people are 'aware' of cancer.
But seriously people need to stop acting like he was a pioneer behind drug use in cycling.
Google how many cyclists have been caught for drug use..... Hundreds and hundreds of cyclists have.
And what about bloody Tyler Hamilton, people are acting like he's the hero, he only ratted lance out to give himself a lesser ban.
Read the book 'Rough Ride' and you will understand why he didn't see it as cheating. And the fact that he is just like the other 80% of professional riders.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby biker jk » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:19 pm
I'm growing tired of this re-writing of history being repeated to suit Armstrong's cause. Yes drug use in cycling has existed since day one but blood doping/EPO allowed donkeys to be turned into racehorses which wasn't the case with previous performance enhancing drugs. LA wasn't just another drug cheat, he lead an organised team doping ring which produced the greatest sporting fraud in history. He himself acknowledged that it was impossible to win seven TDFs in a row without blood doping/EPO and Armstrong was the king of blood dopers/EPO, paid the best doping doctor $1 million per year and bribed the UCI to not test positive. He wasn't just another doper.ozstriker wrote:I don't get why everyone seems to be more upset since he admitted cheating.
Whilst he does sound like a bit of a bully and douchebag, and I find it totally ridiculous that that live strong hasn't given a cent to cancer research, only to bring 'awareness', give me a break, I think people are 'aware' of cancer.
But seriously people need to stop acting like he was a pioneer behind drug use in cycling.
Google how many cyclists have been caught for drug use..... Hundreds and hundreds of cyclists have.
And what about bloody Tyler Hamilton, people are acting like he's the hero, he only ratted lance out to give himself a lesser ban.
Read the book 'Rough Ride' and you will understand why he didn't see it as cheating. And the fact that he is just like the other 80% of professional riders.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby ozstriker » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:31 pm
You can't possibly know how it is with other teamsbiker jk wrote:I'm growing tired of this re-writing of history being repeated to suit Armstrong's cause. Yes drug use in cycling has existed since day one but blood doping/EPO allowed donkeys to be turned into racehorses which wasn't the case with previous performance enhancing drugs. LA wasn't just another drug cheat, he lead an organised team doping ring which produced the greatest sporting fraud in history. He himself acknowledged that it was impossible to win seven TDFs in a row without blood doping/EPO and Armstrong was the king of blood dopers/EPO, paid the best doping doctor $1 million per year and bribed the UCI to not test positive. He wasn't just another doper.ozstriker wrote:I don't get why everyone seems to be more upset since he admitted cheating.
Whilst he does sound like a bit of a bully and douchebag, and I find it totally ridiculous that that live strong hasn't given a cent to cancer research, only to bring 'awareness', give me a break, I think people are 'aware' of cancer.
But seriously people need to stop acting like he was a pioneer behind drug use in cycling.
Google how many cyclists have been caught for drug use..... Hundreds and hundreds of cyclists have.
And what about bloody Tyler Hamilton, people are acting like he's the hero, he only ratted lance out to give himself a lesser ban.
Read the book 'Rough Ride' and you will understand why he didn't see it as cheating. And the fact that he is just like the other 80% of professional riders.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby sogood » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:47 pm
Rejected!Apple wrote:I don't want him anymore
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby sogood » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:54 pm
To be objective, blood and EPO doping weren't invented by LA. As for systematic doping, that's not new within the peloton nor within the sports community at large. As suggested elsewhere, LA/Johan Bruyneel and others in their team just have been more rigorous in their approach. Does that make them more guilty? To some it does and others it doesn't.biker jk wrote:... but blood doping/EPO allowed donkeys to be turned into racehorses which wasn't the case with previous performance enhancing drugs. LA wasn't just another drug cheat, he lead an organised team doping ring which produced the greatest sporting fraud in history...
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby Mulger bill » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:45 pm
Yes it does. Because they took it beyond the next level.sogood wrote:As for systematic doping, that's not new within the peloton nor within the sports community at large. As suggested elsewhere, LA/Johan Bruyneel and others in their team just have been more rigorous in their approach. Does that make them more guilty? To some it does and others it doesn't.
I fully spport any push to criminalise sports doping. Forget WADA and the UCI, let Plod wave the jars about.
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby sogood » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:39 am
Given that sports are now money making careers for participants, it's no different to financial and other professional/corporate services. As such, I also support criminalising sports doping. However and as a devil's advocate, take the example of robbery robbery, why should a failed bank robber be punished less than one who successfully robbed a bank? Obviously it's not black and white but there's something to think about. At least superficially, it's all so easy for those ex-dopers to lay all the blames on LA. If there's blame, Johan Bruyneel would be just as responsible but the media nor riders are highlighting him.Mulger bill wrote:Yes it does. Because they took it beyond the next level.sogood wrote:As for systematic doping, that's not new within the peloton nor within the sports community at large. As suggested elsewhere, LA/Johan Bruyneel and others in their team just have been more rigorous in their approach. Does that make them more guilty? To some it does and others it doesn't.
I fully spport any push to criminalise sports doping. Forget WADA and the UCI, let Plod wave the jars about.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby ozstriker » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:46 am
+1 that's the point I'm trying to make, as much as it will probably upset some people, LA and taking drugs aside, LA had an assload of natural talent to go along with the drugs that helped him win.sogood wrote:Given that sports are now money making careers for participants, it's no different to financial and other professional/corporate services. As such, I also support criminalising sports doping. However and as a devil's advocate, take the example of robbery robbery, why should a failed bank robber be punished less than one who successfully robbed a bank? Obviously it's not black and white but there's something to think about.Mulger bill wrote:Yes it does. Because they took it beyond the next level.sogood wrote:As for systematic doping, that's not new within the peloton nor within the sports community at large. As suggested elsewhere, LA/Johan Bruyneel and others in their team just have been more rigorous in their approach. Does that make them more guilty? To some it does and others it doesn't.
I fully spport any push to criminalise sports doping. Forget WADA and the UCI, let Plod wave the jars about.
To me it shouldn't matter whether you win 10 times or none they should all be treated the same. In cycling most of the cyclists aren't out there to win, but still dope to help there teammates out.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby biker jk » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:53 am
In four previous attempts at winning the TDF Armstrong made it to Paris once (prior to 1999). He himself didn't believe he was GT winning material, "i'm not a guy to win grand tours but i will do well in tough single day races". In 1999, the majority of the peloton was clean. Of 100 odd samples retested for EPO only Armstrongs and a handful of other samples tested positive. So much for natural talent explaining his seven TDF wins in a row.ozstriker wrote:
+1 that's the point I'm trying to make, as much as it will probably upset some people, LA and taking drugs aside, LA had an assload of natural talent to go along with the drugs that helped him win.
To me it shouldn't matter whether you win 10 times or none they should all be treated the same. In cycling most of the cyclists aren't out there to win, but still dope to help there teammates out.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby sogood » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:09 am
That's a hard argument. We all know for a fact that riders improve with age and this could easily be the case for LA too across those years ie. Not a watertight argument. What we do know is that other key riders also took PED of their choice.biker jk wrote:In four previous attempts at winning the TDF Armstrong made it to Paris once (prior to 1999)...
In any case and as I suggested, LA and his team was rigorous and smart in their approach, no different to how corporations win business battles. Was it dirty? Sure it was as dirty as other doper. Was it fair? Sure it was not fair to the minority of clean rider but nothing unfair to the numerous dopers of the time. Should he be punished? Sure he should. But punished in the proper context of those years.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby ozstriker » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Bahahaha you gotta be kidding me.biker jk wrote:In 1999, the majority of the peloton was clean.ozstriker wrote:
+1 that's the point I'm trying to make, as much as it will probably upset some people, LA and taking drugs aside, LA had an assload of natural talent to go along with the drugs that helped him win.
To me it shouldn't matter whether you win 10 times or none they should all be treated the same. In cycling most of the cyclists aren't out there to win, but still dope to help there teammates out.
Where are you getting this top notch information
Seriously, read 'Rough Ride' its a real eye opener
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby ozstriker » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:29 pm
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby biker jk » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:50 pm
1999 was the year after the Festina scandal at the TDF. As such, most in the peleton were not doping in 1999 while Armstrong took it to a new level. It was only after a few years of LA dominance that other teams started to dope again but LA was well in front in the doping arms race having never participated in the detente.ozstriker wrote:Bahahaha you gotta be kidding me.biker jk wrote:In 1999, the majority of the peloton was clean.ozstriker wrote:
+1 that's the point I'm trying to make, as much as it will probably upset some people, LA and taking drugs aside, LA had an assload of natural talent to go along with the drugs that helped him win.
To me it shouldn't matter whether you win 10 times or none they should all be treated the same. In cycling most of the cyclists aren't out there to win, but still dope to help there teammates out.
Where are you getting this top notch information
Seriously, read 'Rough Ride' its a real eye opener
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby brentono » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:12 pm
As a matter of fact, there was a hate train against Eddy,ozstriker wrote:Eddy Merckx tested positive three times, why isn't there a hate train after him.
IN ITALY, the Giro, IN 1969, by officials, and that was one "so-called" positive?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Merckx#Doping
Your starting to spin like a top... get the facts
Think with Lance Armstrong were talking Complicity and Conspiracy to pervert the course of Cycling.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby sogood » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:31 pm
Wouldn't that be a bit naive? Given how hard it has been to eradicate the habit, even in recent years. Do you really think that most of the peloton were dope free after one season?biker jk wrote:1999 was the year after the Festina scandal at the TDF. As such, most in the peleton were not doping in 1999...
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby biker jk » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:01 pm
You clearly didn't read what I wrote so I will repeat. There were around 100 samples retrospectively tested for EPO from the 1999 TDF and only Armstrong and a handful of others were positive. So yes most of the peloton weren't doping in 1999. Armstrong completed the prologue in 8 min 2 sec in 1999. The same course in 1993 was won in a time of 8 min 12 sec by Indurain who had passed Armstrong in the 1994 time trial. Armstrong was doped to the gills in 1999 while most of the peloton were clean.sogood wrote:Wouldn't that be a bit naive? Given how hard it has been to eradicate the habit, even in recent years. Do you really think that most of the peloton were dope free after one season?biker jk wrote:1999 was the year after the Festina scandal at the TDF. As such, most in the peleton were not doping in 1999...
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby sogood » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:08 pm
EPO wasn't the only dope in town. Limited 100 in-competition samples with retrospective testing only provided suggestive information of that narrow time frame, nothing confirmatory. So it's a a bit of a stretch to claim that "most" word. 5 years can be significant for a rider's maturity. It's again insufficient evidence for definitive conclusion.biker jk wrote:You clearly didn't read what I wrote so I will repeat. There were around 100 samples retrospectively tested for EPO from the 1999 TDF and only Armstrong and a handful of others were positive. So yes most of the peloton weren't doping in 1999. Armstrong completed the prologue in 8 min 2 sec in 1999. The same course in 1993 was won in a time of 8 min 12 sec by Indurain who had passed Armstrong in the 1994 time trial. Armstrong was doped to the gills in 1999 while most of the peloton were clean.
I think this point of discussion is also reason why it's hard for scientists/regulators to draw a firm conclusion, versus punters making claims using very limited data. Some may turn out to be true in due course but that's a chance event.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:16 pm
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:44 pm
WADA wasn't in existence at the time of the Festina affair.Mulger bill wrote:Wasn't the Festina business way back then more a police than a WADA thing? I repeat, get the Plod involved.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:42 pm
Point taken Alex, maybe I should have just said anti doping, but without police involvement I somehow doubt that the Festina thing would have been as important as it was.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:WADA wasn't in existence at the time of the Festina affair.Mulger bill wrote:Wasn't the Festina business way back then more a police than a WADA thing? I repeat, get the Plod involved.
Shaun
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby MarkG » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:43 pm
My mother is 58 - she's had cancer for nearly 30 years of her life, from ovarian to breast to cervical cancer, and never once, in any argument or heated debate with anyone, has she ever thrown in the words 'you know I have cancer' or 'back when I had cancer' . She's got more more balls in her cancer ravaged body than that tool LA ever had.
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Re: [POLL] Are you satisfied with the Lance Armstrong Confes
Postby rdwaltonut » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:04 pm
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